Advice Welcome: Purchasing 40ft Catamaran with wet core

[nomadsailing]

GDay all,

I am under contract on a 1996 Manta 40 and during our haulout survey yesterday, a saturated core of the entire underside (underside of bridge deck and inside of each hull) was identified.

This was identified by:
First clue: pulling 3 fasteners out of forward starboard cabin sole - water immediately weeped in from the holes
Moisture meter on the outside during haulout confirmed this

This Manta 40 has Nida Core PP honeycomb core, so rot/desintegration is not an issue?

Other notes
-This does not seem to be osmosis
-There is no delamination or blistering. Hull is in very nice shape
-Only minor section of deck top is wet (unrelated to hull saturation)
-We are not looking for a project boat so a major job like this is not something we want to do ourselves. If we accept the issue and factor in the purchase price, we will be off sailing and not repairing the issue (though monitoring closely)

I am chasing any advice and experience you have on the subject as unfortunately all the research deals with Balsa/Foam cores, osmosis/blistering etc. Not our situation of a solid hull with wet honeycomb core.

I understand all older boats will have some issues along this line, and to me it doesn't seem to be a run away issue, but more of a how much cost reduction to factor in difficulty in resale (this purchase is planned to be a 2-5 year adventure)


Cheers
Paul

[sailhand]

For my money walk away and cut your losses unless you want to spend time in a boatyard. It might only be water but the constant action of waves at sea will eventually cause it to delaminate it there is enough water in there. Are you really gonna be confident on a rough ocean passage in this boat. Polycore or honeycomb is definitely not the best material for a bridgedeck in a wide low heavy cat, and given that there is a lot of fitout on the bridgedeck it will be a massive job and mostly overhead to repair it. I was wrong actually, i wouldnt walk away id RUN. One of the ways to remove a hull from a mold is to put water between the mold and the hull as water will not compress. You push on the inside of the hull and it forces the water to spread between the hull and the mold breaking it free in the process. This is the same type of hydraulic action that delaminates glass from cores and it is in the bridgedeck and hulls, i say again "RUN"!!!!!. New sails and a perfect fitout wont matter when the boat falls apart. If it delaminates you lose nearly all your structual strength, and if it is as you describe it will delaminate if it hasnt already.

[boatman61]

GTFA as fast as you can.

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by nomadsailing

GDay all,
First clue: pulling 3 fasteners out of forward starboard cabin sole - water immediately weeped in from the holes

Aren't there boats on the market without this problem?

Hope you never venture anywhere where the temperature may dip below freezing overnight.

[Lowcountry]

I work as a boat broker, and that would be an instant deal-breaker for me. Safety concerns aside, reselling this boat will be a nightmare.

[nomadsailing]

Originally Posted by sailhand

For my money walk away and cut your losses unless you want to spend time in a boatyard. It might only be water but the constant action of waves at sea will eventually cause it to delaminate it there is enough water in there. Are you really gonna be confident on a rough ocean passage in this boat. Polycore or honeycomb is definitely not the best material for a bridgedeck in a wide low heavy cat, and given that there is a lot of fitout on the bridgedeck it will be a massive job and mostly overhead to repair it. I was wrong actually, i wouldnt walk away id RUN. One of the ways to remove a hull from a mold is to put water between the mold and the hull as water will not compress. You push on the inside of the hull and it forces the water to spread between the hull and the mold breaking it free in the process. This is the same type of hydraulic action that delaminates glass from cores and it is in the bridgedeck and hulls, i say again "RUN"!!!!!. New sails and a perfect fitout wont matter when the boat falls apart. If it delaminates you lose nearly all your structual strength, and if it is as you describe it will delaminate if it hasnt already.

Thanks for the elaborate run down! Been tricky to really find out the mechanism of failure/degradation from a wet core so this has been very helpful and advice taken on board!

[Tetepare]

One major maintenance project no boat builder ever tells you is that all the deck hardware (inc. toe rails, etc.) needs to be stripped off every ~15 years and rebedded, otherwise water starts to intrude and saturate the deck and/or hull. If the boat has a teak deck screwed down, it's big trouble and big work.


One a boat gets saturated it, at best, sucks. Think of the extra weight 1000 or 2000 liters of water add. Balsa will decay. And, as said, if it freezes you are going to have very, very big problems.


You can fix a section; you can't fix an entire deck and hull- not reasonably anyway. And it's only going to get worse- leaks into the cabin destroy wood, particularly laminates.



If it's that waterlogged, forget it.

[admiralslater]

This is a bad situation ,the cost of proper repair will be astronomical and take for ever. I would take your budget and add the 50 grand saved and look at another boat . There are lots of boats of that age that are not ruined

[Chotu]

Ik. I'm big on DIY repairs to get a good deal but this isn't a good deal.

With both hulls and the bridgedeck wet and delaminating, you're talking about a project as big as building a bare hull from scratch in this case.

If the boat was free I'd maybe consider it.

If you are paying, I wouldn't take this project on.

[nomadsailing]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Ik. I'm big on DIY repairs to get a good deal but this isn't a good deal.

With both hulls and the bridgedeck wet and delaminating, you're talking about a project as big as building a bare hull from scratch in this case.

If the boat was free I'd maybe consider it.

If you are paying, I wouldn't take this project on.

Thanks for the feedback. To note the boat is not delaminating. The fibreglass is all still very solid and intact with no delamination/blistering or soft spots. Though I imagine not changing your advice I just wanted to clarify

[nomadsailing]

Originally Posted by admiralslater

This is a bad situation ,the cost of proper repair will be astronomical and take for ever. I would take your budget and add the 50 grand saved and look at another boat . There are lots of boats of that age that are not ruined

yes as mentioned there would be no repairing due to cost/impracticality.

The options are buy and live with the issue or not buy at all. No buying and fixing.

But feedback is pointing me towards not buying.

Cheers

[Sand crab]

That's a f##kin drag because Mantas are great boats. Walk or get a big adjustment.

[nomadsailing]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

That's a f##kin drag because Mantas are great boats. Walk or get a big adjustment.

Yeah when my surveyor said 'alright who wants to go have a talk about something' and showed me the forward starboard berth to see the water coming out of a screw hole I was thinking... dammit come this far.

This boat was already very competitively priced hence us taking it to survey, though our 2nd choice is another Manta 40 that I know surveyed well recently, though at a fair higher price. Such is life

[belizesailor]

Just happens that a former CF member contacted me yesterday who has a very well maintained Manta for sale. PM me if interested and I will send you his contact info.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by nomadsailing

Thanks for the feedback. To note the boat is not delaminating. The fibreglass is all still very solid and intact with no delamination/blistering or soft spots. Though I imagine not changing your advice I just wanted to clarify

Um... It WILL be delaminating.

Water in the core is an absolutely disaster if not fixed.