What is the value of Yanmar Diesel motors?

[storx]

I am curious if anyone knows the value of known good used 27hp diesel yanmar engines from cats?

I ask because i am in the market to buy a boat in the near future to live aboard, been looking at used catamarans and due to being a big fan of electric propulsion owning a tesla and built homemade electric powered bicycles and DIY powerwall from used 18650 cells.

I have been throwing around the idea of buying one of the used cats with higher hours on the drive motors and replace them with electric motors and invest in a nice lithium or LIPO battery pack for the boat and sell off the motors to offset the cost of the repowering.

1) 30-50hp electric motors are plenty easy to come by these days for under $600ea new as long as you don't go and buy someone's overpriced EV kit. You can also pick up some nice 350A controllers to power them in the $300-400 range giving you 60-100hp max of propulsion for around $2,000-2,500 not including the batteries which would be an investment, because if you get good quality solar brand batteries they are warrantied for 7-10 years or you can build a DIY battery bank like i plan on doing with 18650 cells picked up for nearly free from battery recycling.

This is 10KWh of battery packs i just assembled with some used 18650 cells i got from free laptop batteries i got from local business that are going to be added to my powerwall soon. My only cost is in the board kits i buy in bulk to assemble them.

[masonc]

I just paid $5,000 for a used 3GM30F with transmission.

[LoudMusic]

I recommend finding a catamaran with Volvos that are due for the warranty replacement, get them replaced, then sell the brand new engines. Better yet, find a dealer that will leave them in the crates for you. Volvo's warranty replacement includes haul out, all labor for removal of old equipment (disposed of) and fitment of new equipment.

Then you've just got to cover the remaining time on the hard to do your own install. Should give you a $20K head start after selling those engines.

The D1-30 and D2-40 are the ones I specifically know about, but I don't know how long the warranty replacement will last.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by storx

I ask because i am in the market to buy a boat in the near future to live aboard, been looking at used catamarans and due to being a big fan of electric propulsion owning a tesla and built homemade electric powered bicycles and DIY powerwall from used 18650 cells.

I have been throwing around the idea of buying one of the used cats with higher hours on the drive motors and replace them with electric motors and invest in a nice lithium or LIPO battery pack for the boat and sell off the motors to offset the cost of the repowering.

Read the many threads here about electric propulsion. Seems to be they have a place as short term auxiliary power... like in and out of harbors and then onward via sail... but then it depends on if your particular expected usage fits that "short term" profile. Especially if you also need to consider emergency power situations.

One significant issue: how will you recharge? If the answer is diesel (or gas), then it can be less efficient to run diesel to recharge batteries to consune power... than it is to just use the diesel for propulsion in the first place.

But that's just a brief intro; there are lots of threads with a combination of "whether" or "how to" under discussion.

-Chris

[bobnlesley]

Originally Posted by masonc

I just paid $5,000 for a used 3GM30F with transmission.

Ouch! We got one for $500 in Trinidad in 2014.
This wide variation clearly shows that 'what's one worth?' is entirely dependent on where/when and who if anyone wants it: The seller had bought a cat with 1 3GM motor and one newer 3YM motor and was re-engining prior to sailing his 'new' boat home to Australia, apparently he could buy engines in Trini for <half the Aussie price? I don't know what the YM was sold for, but whilst trying to source a new starter motor for ours I heard that he had the 3GM for sale and no eager buyers, so I offered $500 and simply pulled the motor apart for spare parts, not least the starter motor. The second thing we used was the engine control panel and I was told that it alone would've cost me more than $500 for a new one.

[LoudMusic]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Read the many threads here about electric propulsion. Seems to be they have a place as short term auxiliary power... like in and out of harbors and then onward via sail... but then it depends on if your particular expected usage fits that "short term" profile. Especially if you also need to consider emergency power situations.

One significant issue: how will you recharge? If the answer is diesel (or gas), then it can be less efficient to run diesel to recharge batteries to consune power... than it is to just use the diesel for propulsion in the first place.

But that's just a brief intro; there are lots of threads with a combination of "whether" or "how to" under discussion.

-Chris

That's quite true, however, if he's assembling his own batteries he can make them any shape he wants to fit into any location on the boat.

Further, they will be a tiny fraction the cost of what most people estimate because the vast majority of his materials are near free.

Also, using diesel to produce electricity to charge batteries to run an electric motor might be more efficient than it initially sounds. It's certainly management friendly because the diesel engine doesn't have to be down in an awkward hard to reach place. It can literally be anywhere on the boat. It can also run at absolute optimum charging efficiency whenever it runs, and shutdown when it isn't needed.

And if you intend to spend little time moving around and mostly sit on anchor, solar and wind turbines could (very slowly) charge up a rather large battery bank for propulsion.

The biggest issue I think would be deciding how to partition your batteries. Drive motors typically run at pretty high DC voltages. Do you have one massive "house" bank with a converter for drive use, or one massive "propulsion" bank with a converter for house use, or two separate battery banks ...

Deciding how much is enough becomes difficult. But I think clearly the answer is "just a little bit more ..."

I like the idea of electric propulsion in a boat. And if there is a time in my life when I'm no longer in a hurry to get places for some scheduled nonsense, then I might give it a go.

[mlydon]

Get a genset with a dc ‘gen’ part - monster output to directly charge the batteries, much more efficient than outputting ac, putting that into chargers, which put is back into dc.....

Matt

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by mlydon

Get a genset with a dc ‘gen’ part - monster output to directly charge the batteries, much more efficient than outputting ac, putting that into chargers, which put is back into dc.....



Matt

It’s really not, on the order of just a few percent. Modern chargers and inverters are about 95% efficient.

However as has been said, most drive motors on electric automobiles etc and Hybrids operate at a few hundred volts, not low voltage.
Once you get past trolling motor size, high voltage is more viable.

No matter how you slice it, battery charging with a Diesel motor and then using the batteries to drive a propulsion motor is less efficient than direct drive, or making electricity to drive the motor direct is better than charging a battery, but it’s still less efficient than direct drive.

Then your taking a Cat with two completely independent source of propulsion and ending up with one source.

The theory of Solar propulsion as being viable is so easily debunked most don’t even try that road, so I have to wonder other than day sailing and coming back to the dock to charge every day, which is I think a use case that begs for electric propulsion, what is it that people are trying to accomplish with electric propulsion?
Is it that electric autos are fashionable now?

[ptards]

Have you checked out Nigel Calder's Ytube of Intergral?

[coastalexplorer]

In the automotive world Ford and General motors enthusiasts have been bashing each other for decades, So are we now seeing Volvo and YM enthusiasts treating each other similarly? Bottom Line; I think love your engine it will reward you with good reliable service?


Every week we get posts of live-aboard dreams. Does this have anything to do with the over inflated real estate prices in some parts of the world and a quest for a cheap place to live?
Rhetorical question here of course, define life style? you can camp/survive in a trailer sailer...So is the latest craze for Catamaran/trimaran all about trying to get as much real estate on the water as possible?.


The electric powered boat thing also seems to be the latest enthusiastic debate, Back in 1911 a lady in Victoria British Columbia was driving an electric car. So I know that the quest to perfect this technology has been going on for well over 100 years. Actually that technology has been all about the batteries/and how to charge them/plus the efficiency of how to do that.


Now another 'trend' that has recently been getting much exposure by the reality television crowd. (which has also no doubt been quietly going on in the background for a few centuries? is the homesteading/ and Prepper fraternity. These people have been shown to be dealing with the cost and difficulty of obtaining fuel for the production of electricity. Those with an inquiring mind who take the time to look into it. would find that this has prompted a whole second look at the revival of steam power. The (on a boat?)advantages of which are.


Consumption of any fuel that produces heat. Wood/disposal of refuse, used lubricating oil.

Use of exhaust steam for space heat,
Domestic hot water.


Closer inspection of current trends in steam power will expose innovative ways that are being tried to use modern materials and methods to produce rotating motion.


As a final comment I imagine those who wish to experiment with marine electric power would be better served to use mono hulls custom built to designs reminiscent of the days of the steam auxiliary yacht. or a trimaran so that driving only one propeller shaft is required.

[roverhi]

If you aren't going anywhere electric power makes sense. As soon as you contemplate a need to power more than a few hours without a chord tied to the docks power outlet, electric power just doesn't make sense. If you have to run a generator to charge the batteries or power the motor, diesel direct drive is just better in all ways. The only hybrid I could see is in a catamaran with a diesel in one hull driving a prop. Hang a large alternator off that engine to charge batteries for an electric motor in the other hull.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by ptards

Have you checked out Nigel Calder's Ytube of Intergral?

No idea, and YouTube is not really easy for me as all I have is a phone to hotspot with, so I’m bandwidth limited.
How about a synopsis?

[rramsden]

Electric drives are still not ready. Diesel electric you lose half your power converting it to electric. Unless you're trying to go full solar, not worth it.

I have 2 40 hp Yanmars that run like a charm. I prefer Yanmar over Volvo, I never have to preheat my Yanmar, unless it's cold (45F). I have on some recent Volvos.

[coastalexplorer]

The history behind the concept of driving a vessels propeller shaft with an electric motor goes back in time to the early 1900's perhaps the first successful system in a ship dates from 1907?

When the change over from reciprocating steam engines to more efficient steam turbines began.
The challenge encountered was how to reliably convert the extremely high revolution's of the turbine into the desired slow RPM on the propeller shaft.

By converting the output of the turbine into electrical energy. The use of an electric motor on the propeller shaft eliminated the need for a clutch and transmission. It also facilitated reverse.

So to be successful the challenge could be to find a way to miniatureize the system. While using a steam or gas turbine.

I think that majority of members here would rather invest their time improving their sailing skills?

[ozsailer]

Just a bit of a tangent on your thought process. Have you considered the implications of installing a homemade battery storage system and electric motor in regards to your insurance. I would think that any insurance company is going to request an engineers certificate of compliance etc before they may issue you with insurance. In my opinion worth a phone call to your current insurer to clarfify their requirements.
I would also support what a few other have said here. At the moment electric is great for leaving and manourvering around a dock and also anchoring but in adverse conditions and time I doubt the electric motors will stand up to the power that will be required for continued forward motion.


Greg H
Lagoon 440.