Volvo Penta terminology

[iTs_BuX]

Hi All,

I have a 34ft timber motor boat powered by a Volvo 305hp TAMD70E inboard engine, I have owned these for a couple of years now, and Im no way mechanically inclined...
Regardless of regular servicing I am now finding out there is a problem that should have apparently been obvious a while back, but not communicated by a mechanic I no longer use, however a more recent mechanic has confused me and Im hoping someone might be able to clear it up.

After hearing a grinding noise from the engine a mechanic advised me 2 things, my cooling system needs a flush, but more relevant to the noise, the circulation pump bearing is buggered.

Looking at the engine manual I can only find a sea pump, is this the same thing?

Cheers
BuX

[ranger58sb]

Yes, sea pump is likely same as what he's called circulation pump. (I suspect he'd have said fuel pump or oil pump if he had meant one of those.)

Sea pump (sea water aka raw water) circulation pump is related to the "cooling system needs a flush" too. Sea water flows around engine oil and engine coolant (captured in systems within the system), similar to the way air flows around coolant in an automobile radiator.

Sounds like you need improved raw water circulation. One step is to flush the system, the other is to be sure the pump is working correctly.

-Chris

[HeywoodJ]

AFAIK all of that series of engines are "fresh-water cooled" which means there are two pumps; the "seawater pump" that brings water in from the outside, passes it through a heat exchanger and discharges it, and a coolant "circulation pump", which is exactly what Volvo calls it, that circulates coolant in the closed-loop engine side of the system. The circulation pump is very like the same pumps on any automobile engine, while the seawater pump is usually a positive displacement impeller type pump.

If your mechanic says it is the circulation pump then I would guess that is what he means.

The parts diagram for the circulation pump

Marine Parts Express has the VP Schematics. Sorry, the link is not direct because of the way the site is built. Drill down through "Diesel" then "TAMD70D...TAMD70E" then "Cooling System" and you can get schematics and part numbers for both the circulation and seawater systems. Be a little careful, there are sometimes specific differences between a 70D and a 70E, and the schematics are a bit lumped together.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by HeywoodJ

AFAIK all of that series of engines are "fresh-water cooled" which means there are two pumps; the "seawater pump" that brings water in from the outside, passes it through a heat exchanger and discharges it, and a coolant "circulation pump", which is exactly what Volvo calls it, that circulates coolant in the closed-loop engine side of the system. The circulation pump is very like the same pumps on any automobile engine, while the seawater pump is usually a positive displacement impeller type pump.

Ah. If Volvo actually calls the coolant pump a "circulation pump" I'd go with that translation instead of what I sad earlier.

-Chris

[Scubaseas]

Originally Posted by HeywoodJ

AFAIK all of that series of engines are "fresh-water cooled" which means there are two pumps; the "seawater pump" that brings water in from the outside, passes it through a heat exchanger and discharges it, and a coolant "circulation pump", which is exactly what Volvo calls it, that circulates coolant in the closed-loop engine side of the system. The circulation pump is very like the same pumps on any automobile engine, while the seawater pump is usually a positive displacement impeller type pump.

If your mechanic says it is the circulation pump then I would guess that is what he means.

The parts diagram for the circulation pump

Marine Parts Express has the VP Schematics. Sorry, the link is not direct because of the way the site is built. Drill down through "Diesel" then "TAMD70D...TAMD70E" then "Cooling System" and you can get schematics and part numbers for both the circulation and seawater systems. Be a little careful, there are sometimes specific differences between a 70D and a 70E, and the schematics are a bit lumped together.

This. Exactly and well spoken.

You can use a screw driver or long stick as a stethoscope to hear and often feel a bad bearing. If you need clarification ask the mechanic but using language the mechanic might use (I have spoken fluent master mechanic for over 50 years) and not what the Volvo manual calls it you have water two pumps. Don't be bashful asking the mechanic which pump he means. Happens all the time.

One is the raw water or sea water pump. The other is the circulation pump or fresh water or coolant (circulation) pump.

Note: bearing noise needs to be fixed ASAP. Leaks you can live with sometimes but bearings can fail/will and can often lead to other damage. Ignore bearing noises at your own risk. Seen many a car where the owner was told "you need to fix this right away" only to have the car towed in next month with the fan having gone through the radiator. No radiator on a boat but you get the idea.

[iTs_BuX]

Originally Posted by ranger58sb

Yes, sea pump is likely same as what he's called circulation pump. (I suspect he'd have said fuel pump or oil pump if he had meant one of those.)

Sea pump (sea water aka raw water) circulation pump is related to the "cooling system needs a flush" too. Sea water flows around engine oil and engine coolant (captured in systems within the system), similar to the way air flows around coolant in an automobile radiator.

Sounds like you need improved raw water circulation. One step is to flush the system, the other is to be sure the pump is working correctly.

-Chris

Cheers Chris, I will be addressing both the bearing and the flushing.

[iTs_BuX]

Originally Posted by HeywoodJ

AFAIK all of that series of engines are "fresh-water cooled" which means there are two pumps; the "seawater pump" that brings water in from the outside, passes it through a heat exchanger and discharges it, and a coolant "circulation pump", which is exactly what Volvo calls it, that circulates coolant in the closed-loop engine side of the system. The circulation pump is very like the same pumps on any automobile engine, while the seawater pump is usually a positive displacement impeller type pump.

If your mechanic says it is the circulation pump then I would guess that is what he means.

The parts diagram for the circulation pump

Marine Parts Express has the VP Schematics. Sorry, the link is not direct because of the way the site is built. Drill down through "Diesel" then "TAMD70D...TAMD70E" then "Cooling System" and you can get schematics and part numbers for both the circulation and seawater systems. Be a little careful, there are sometimes specific differences between a 70D and a 70E, and the schematics are a bit lumped together.

Good catch Heywood, I had completely ignored the coolant/freshwater system and only focused on the seawater system. This will explain why a refurb kit for a circulation pump didn't look like the seawater housing *insert forehead slap here*
Thanks for the link, most useful

Time to find a mechanic who I dont feel is trying to upsell me...
Thanks for the input, much appreciated.

[iTs_BuX]

Originally Posted by Scubaseas

This. Exactly and well spoken.

You can use a screw driver or long stick as a stethoscope to hear and often feel a bad bearing. If you need clarification ask the mechanic but using language the mechanic might use (I have spoken fluent master mechanic for over 50 years) and not what the Volvo manual calls it you have water two pumps. Don't be bashful asking the mechanic which pump he means. Happens all the time.

One is the raw water or sea water pump. The other is the circulation pump or fresh water or coolant (circulation) pump.

Note: bearing noise needs to be fixed ASAP. Leaks you can live with sometimes but bearings can fail/will and can often lead to other damage. Ignore bearing noises at your own risk. Seen many a car where the owner was told "you need to fix this right away" only to have the car towed in next month with the fan having gone through the radiator. No radiator on a boat but you get the idea.

Thanks Scubaseas, with the added knowledge from the replies I will have another look at the engine. I was focused on the sea pump, when I locate the circulation pump I will try the screwdriver to ID the failing bearing.
I have parked the old girl up, I don't plan starting the engine unless absolutely required, I don't need the bearing failing completely..

Thanks for the help.

[HeywoodJ]

I have not worked on that particular pump, but if you do determine that it has a bad bearing I would pull the pump, disassemble, and then take the bearings and seals to a bearing shop. Check the parts price with Volvo, who are usually quite dear but sometimes surprise, and then see what the bearing shop has to say. The odds are nearly 100% that there is nothing special about the bearings and seals, they are likely a standard industrial size, and can be sourced for little money.

[iTs_BuX]

I have priced a repair kit for the circulation pump, includes bearings and gaskets and its relatively cheap. Its not Volvo brand, aftermarket kit, my experience is brand parts tend to have an extra zero or two dropped on the end of the price...

I will check first of course, and if happy that its the bearing I'll crack the housing and remove the bearings. Probably replace both, as well as perishable parts, whilst the parts are accessible.

[bil56]

sea water pump
https://www.volvopenta.com/shop/5230...tions/54151343
cooling pump
https://www.volvopenta.com/shop/5230...tions/54151346

(sorry, in french, look for english version)

[iTs_BuX]

Originally Posted by bil56

sea water pump
https://www.volvopenta.com/shop/5230...tions/54151343
cooling pump
https://www.volvopenta.com/shop/5230...tions/54151346

(sorry, in french, look for english version)

Many thanks bil56, really appreciate those links, and with the wonder of modern technology its come up in English

On the depressing side, I now know how much the old girl is about to cost me!
But thats boating...

[iTs_BuX]

Hi all,

To those with a better knowledge than I, with regards to the links of the parts and costs provided in the post by bil56, the Pumps are about $3.5k... would that be the housing complete with the internal components or just the cast housing?

If just the housing I think I need a second job...

[Pandor]

Your mechanic didn’t say you need a new pump. You need to remove it and see about a rebuild.

[skipperpete]

I’m surprised by the cost of that circulating pump, basically your engine is a very common Volvo truck and bus engine and the pump should be far less expensive than $3,500 for a complete bolt on replacement.