Universal M30 white and black exhaust

[Josephcrawl]

I should add we had the valves reground by a professional engine machinist.

[skipperpete]

First, turn off the raw water intake. Don’t use starting ether spray. THEN check glopugs to make sure they actually heat up and finally, make sure the injector pipes go to the appropriate injectors.... that last suggestion is a bit of longshot on your 3cyl but you would be surprised how often this happens on engines with distributor type pumps rather than your cassette type. If you have fuel and compression it should start.
Pete

[Josephcrawl]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

First, turn off the raw water intake. Don’t use starting ether spray. THEN check glopugs to make sure they actually heat up and finally, make sure the injector pipes go to the appropriate injectors.... that last suggestion is a bit of longshot on your 3cyl but you would be surprised how often this happens on engines with distributor type pumps rather than your cassette type. If you have fuel and compression it should start.
Pete

I wish those injector lines were crossed!

I can see the amp meter jump when the glow button is pressed. Plus I checked the voltage on them but not sure if they are really working. Will they be hot to the touch on the outside of the engine? I pulled one and tested it by touching the body to engine while pressing glow button and it got hot

I'm thinking of tightening the head bolts a hair tighter.
I'm running out of ideas and considering professional help.

[Compass790]

If you have compression & fuel injection it should run. Didnt set tappets 180o out by any chance? Cant imagine that over tightening the head bolts is going to fix your problem. Scratching my head on this one, following with interest to see what it turns out to be

[skipperpete]

Yep , compass is right, re do the tappets check that all the pushrods are in place and straight, check the valve stem caps. Are you getting any sign of smoke out of the exhaust? Did you compare the new gasket to the old, especially thickness but also diameter of the bores.... don’t add more torque to the head bolts, if you want to re tension them, back each one off by ½ turn then pull em down again. Only loosen and re tension one at a time in the correct pattern.
By any chance , is the air intake blocked?
Keep that seacock closed!

[Josephcrawl]

Originally Posted by Compass790

If you have compression & fuel injection it should run. Didnt set tappets 180o out by any chance? Cant imagine that over tightening the head bolts is going to fix your problem. Scratching my head on this one, following with interest to see what it turns out to be

Perhaps we did. On the purge stroke the exhaust valve should close just before tdc correct? And on the compression stroke they should both sit closed all the way to tdc? I'll pull the valve cover and double check I've got them right.

My next step was gonna be to do a proper compression test if I can locate a diesel compression tester. The auto parts stores round here don't carry them. Then a leak down test.

Thanks everyone for the feed back. Gonna do some engineless sailing for a few days and try and regain my motivation.

[Compass790]

I dont explain in writing so well but the last valve to open before the compression stroke is the intake valve. Better if you watch this vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTAUq6G9apg

Make sure you are rotating the crankshaft in it's normal direction. Sorry if I'm stating the obvious but sometimes we do really dumb things.Dont ask me how I know.

Good idea to check compression with a tester meant for diesels, surprised you managed to use a petrol engine compression tester & get it up to 300 psi but I havent tried it.
I will be a bit surprised if your problem is compression related but it sure should be ticked off the list.
Did you check air intake as skipperpete suggested, again needs to be ticked off the list.
I'm assuming the exhaust has been checked for any restrictions as well?

[Josephcrawl]

Went sailing for a few days and only ran aground about 3 times. Getting pretty skilled at kedging.

The leak down and compression tester arrived and I performed some tests.

The batteries were a bit low at about 12.4 volts but cranking at a decent speed. Glow plugs were removed so not to much load on the starter.

#1 220lbs
#2 150lbs
#3 180lbs

These readings are far lower than the cheap gasoline compression tester. I will run them again after the solar panel has put a decent charge on the battery bank.

Leak down testing. This was performed with the piston at tdc and all other glow plugs removed.

#1 low leakage (this is a cheap tester and not sure if the values of low/mod/high apply to a higher combustion diesel engine)

No bubbling in the coolant, air escaping around dip stick and air escaping from intake port.

#2 low bordering mid on leakage

Same on air leaks

#3 same as #2

I tapped each intake valve and made sure the rocker was not depressing valve. No air was detectable at the mixing elbow detached from muffler hose.

My current thought is the valve guy did a bad job on the seats and I need to take it back. I can get a new head head with valve for about 750 maybe I should get a refund from the machine shop and order that new head? Would be nice to get it running again tired of running aground.

[Compass790]

Compression way too low for a diesel engine, not sure what the figures are supposed to be for yr engine but pretty sure should be higher than that. At least 300 I would have thought but wait till someone who know yr engine chimes in.
Assuming you got a proper seal on your dummy injector for the test gauge. You can try a little Loctite 518 on the test injector sealing face if you have trouble.
Air out of dipstick = compression leaking past rings. Better that leakdown test experts comment on your readings.
Maybe skipperpete will chime in.
Air out of intake= intake valve leaking & so on but I guess you know that.
I didnt find any issues doing my own valve grinds on our 23:1 compression engine. You can test them for seal easy enough with diesel.

[Josephcrawl]

Originally Posted by Compass790

Compression way too low for a diesel engine, not sure what the figures are supposed to be for yr engine but pretty sure should be higher than that. At least 300 I would have thought but wait till someone who know yr engine chimes in.
Assuming you got a proper seal on your dummy injector for the test gauge. You can try a little Loctite 518 on the test injector sealing face if you have trouble.
Air out of dipstick = compression leaking past rings. Better that leakdown test experts comment on your readings.
Maybe skipperpete will chime in.
Air out of intake= intake valve leaking & so on but I guess you know that.
I didnt find any issues doing my own valve grinds on our 23:1 compression engine. You can test them for seal easy enough with diesel.

Is it normal to get some air leakage from the valves with a leak down test? There's none detectable from the exhaust side. Is it possible the intake air could be coming a different route than around the valve that would explain things?

Spoke to the valve machinist today and swore up and down it passed a vac test before it left. He also claimed a diesel should run on the compression numbers I gave which made me question his credibility.

One other thing I thought of we did not oil the head bolts before reassembly which the manual advises. How much would this reduce the final tightness?

[Compass790]

Woah hold on there!

I might be missing something here but how can you do a compression & leakdown test with the glowplugs removed?
Be hard to believe the machinist could muck up the valve grind.
He is dead wrong imagining it could go with those compression figures, your engine is 21:1 compression ratio so it should be at least over 350 psi.
If the head was cracked it could go a different path but cant see how that would have passed the machine shops examination.
Again I dont have a leakdown tester so need to ask someone who is familiar, try PM ing skipperpete, he is a helpful & knowleadgeable mechanic.
No time ATM to dive deeper. Good luck

[Josephcrawl]

Originally Posted by Compass790

Woah hold on there!

I might be missing something here but how can you do a compression & leakdown test with the glowplugs removed?
Be hard to believe the machinist could muck up the valve grind.
He is dead wrong imagining it could go with those compression figures, your engine is 21:1 compression ratio so it should be at least over 350 psi.
If the head was cracked it could go a different path but cant see how that would have passed the machine shops examination.
Again I dont have a leakdown tester so need to ask someone who is familiar, try PM ing skipperpete, he is a helpful & knowleadgeable mechanic.
No time ATM to dive deeper. Good luck

The compression tester I have had an insert for the glow plug. So this is how I ran both tests.

Did a wet compression test today and got a serious increase in psi.
#1 went from 190 to 300
#2 150 to 220
#3 170 to 240

These numbers don't seem to bode well for the engine. My brother who's experienced with these things has offered to help me do a full rebuild. The d1102 rebuild kit is under $600 maybe it's the right way to go.

[Compass790]

Hell yes it needs a rebuild. If you can do a 3 cylinder engine for under $600 you are lucky. If it was a Yanmar in NZ you'd be looking at $3000+ if you had to buy parts from a Yanmar marine agent.

Be interesting to see if it has broken rings & what the bore wear is like should you be able to measure it.

[Compass790]

There is one thing that still troubles me about your saga & that is that the motor was running before you pulled the head off ( albeit badly) but not after you re-installed it.
Are we missing something?
Cant see how it ran before with those compression figures.

[skipperpete]

Damned good point Compass, ...before, the only issue was smoky exhaust and now, no smoke and no start despite having fuel at the injectors??
It looked like the old head gasket was leaking but the engine was STILL starting ok.
I’m still interested in the leakage test with air getting past the intake valves.... this must either be tight valve settings or the wrong stroke for the test where the valves are very slightly open.
If I was doing this job, I’d re check the valve settings then re do the leakage test making sure that both valves had some sort of clearance (not tight) then I’d get the hot hairdryer paint strip gun and give it a good breath of 200° air for a few minutes then crank it with the hot air blowing into the now very warm intake throat. Unless JC is in Antarctica the sucker should start. The heat of compression lost due to low compression is replaced by the hairdryer hot air.... we know it’s got fuel ....... it should fire up. And maybe the rings will re seal and the compression will improve...... it does happen.