Seeking Opinions on Best Diesel Repower for Long-Haul Voyaging

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

An engine just like me

Me to Mark, me to

Comments like these also made me go the cummins slow, heavy, lazy route

Cummins by far
I even heard of a 6bt the other day. done 15000 commercial hrs without head lift off and these are bored in the block engines
Why are Cummins so good? because they do not over rate the engine.
The backup is wonderful
at bottom of pile yanmar
half way down the hand grenade rated volvos\

I'd say Cummins,seen one with 12000 hours unopened.

Injection pump rebuild kits are $70.
Holset turbo rebuild kits about $130
Full engine rebuild kits with all parts are under $800 US.

When I was making the decision on mine I was told a "story" by a mate about a B3.3 like mine used as a genny on a gin palace.

They noticed a smell coming from the engine room and on inspection the motor was overheating chronically, so much so that it had burned the paint off.

They changed the oil and it supposedly was still running fine.

Not that I plan on doing things like that.

[osirissail]

Revisiting the original post in this thread - The choice of engine is controlled more by the boat and already existing equipment more than other factors. You first have to consider the side (dimensions) of a replacement engine. With a transmission will it fit on the current space - height, length, and width. Then there is the engine mount lateral spacing - distance between engine mount rails/stringers. Will the oil pan fit down into the current space. Can you get to the oil pan plug to drain/service the oil/engine. And then the total length and coupling to the prop shaft. The prospective new engine may have a wonderful reputation, but does it fit in the boat?
- - Then there at the engine specifications as to rpm range, ability to handle an alternator, and instrumentation. Although you normally get all new engine instruments with the engine. The Beta MarineNC package is impressive. Then there is engine rotation direction - clockwise or counterclockwise.
- - Propellers, especially folding ones are not cheap and you need to match engine horsepower versus rpm to the old engine to be able to avoid having to replace the propeller.
- - These considerations will greatly affect the choice of which engine to purchase. You start with the best recommended engine manufacturer and work down the list until you find an engine that will meet the requirements listed above.

[neilpride]

Perkins !!!! yanmar, volvo, Kubota.

[forsailbyowner]

Wonder why people are so down on rebuilding engines. When I lived ashore I ran the same chevy 350 through 3 vehicles. I rebuilt it every time I had it pulled. It outlived two work vans and was running strong in a z28 when I sold it. I see rebuild kits all over for $500-600 for my 4.108. Complete rebuilt head for same price range. Injector pumps too. New forged aftermarket cranks are available. Ill be running this 30 year old engine for a long time to come. People seem offended that they are rated for 50 hp and put out less. I'm thrilled that my 30 hp engine has a rotating assembly overbuilt by such a large margin. Just my 2c.

[osirissail]

- - Rebuilding is a viable and good first choice, if - the parts and kits are available. This is a major limitation for the older engines where the original manufacturer has gone out of business or been absorbed (bought out) by a competitor. Marine engines last many decades if maintained properly, but when the parts supply dries up then it is time to look for a different brand/make/model engine. The old "saw" about diesel engines lasting forever is true but the parts supply doesn't.
- - On my big Perkins 6.354, I had to replace the water-cooled exhaust manifold due to seawater corrosion. It required shipping in the unit from England where the last 3 "in the world" were located. Of course the price on getting one of the last 3 in the world was astronomical. Many small sailboat whole engines cost less than that manifold cost me. When this one consumes itself, that is the end of my engine, I will have to buy a new engine even though the rest of the engine is fine. On upside my engine is probably worth more as a source of replacement parts for other people than the original price of the engine.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by osirissail

The old "saw" about diesel engines lasting forever is true but the parts supply doesn't.
- - On my big Perkins 6.354, I had to replace the water-cooled exhaust manifold due to seawater corrosion. It required shipping in the unit from England where the last 3 "in the world" were located. Of course the price on getting one of the last 3 in the world was astronomical. Many small sailboat whole engines cost less than that manifold cost me. When this one consumes itself, that is the end of my engine,

Why not get one made?

Someone like Diecon Engineering should be able to do it.

(this is where I got my marinised Cummins from)

We manufacture a range of standard heat exchangers that find application in a wide variety of industries. We also repair, re-tube and test all types of shell and tube heat exchangers, including, Bowman, Serck, Youngs, Sendure, R&D and Savage to name a few.
In addition, we have a standard range of after-market marine manifolds and heat exchangers that replace the original units at much lower cost. Some of these include Perkins, Cummins, Ford, Mercedes, Gardiner, BMC, Hino, Cat, Scania, Detroit, Vetus, Nanni, Mitsubishi, Yanmar and more.
Diecon can also design and manufacture heat exchangers, manifolds, charge air coolers and oil coolers for most engine models and applications.
Diecon Engineering carries out all manufacturing and assembly, including fabrication, casting and machining, 'in house'.

Exhaust Manifolds

DIECON has been manufacturing water cooled exhaust manifolds for marine and mining diesel engines for over 45 years.
Generally we can reproduce almost any factory made manifold, as we fabricate these from mild steel then hot dip galvanise. We can not always guarantee an exact copy, however, they will replace the original units using all the original fittings, hoses etc, and look the same.

[barnakiel]

I would not go the Yanmar way - have seen two installations by Yanmar dealers where the engines stopped after giving just couple of hours of service.

I do not say they are bad engines, but the level of training of their technicians is not up to the job. Probably though a local phenomenon (Europe and Polynesia).

b.

[S&S]

I've always considered yanmar a powerboat engine (high speed, turbocharged etc). Our yard loves them though.
We're going with another Westerbeke (65A)
Why?
it fits

cummins: too big
Perkins:too big
yanmar:too fast and it's a turbo
Deere: too big
Beta: It'd be nice if they actually put some info on their website.

Our W58 is 25 years old- still starts though.

[osirissail]

Very good point about installations. Generally the "technicians" are all educated by "OJT" on the job training by an older (hopefully) previous "technician." Very little - if any - factory training happens primarily because the "factory" is continents away. If you have been an active cruiser for a number of years, you probably know more about how to replace the engine than these "technicians." Brain power wise it is not a difficult process although it does require some brawn power to get the old out and the new into the boat. You get a real practical lesson in "cranes, levers and pulleys" theory. Although I have done this professionally, I find that cruisers are capable and are most certainly more careful and concerned with doing a good job. However, there are some little quirks in the process that an experienced installer has seen and can avoid or help you avoid for a more successful end result. I would not rule out any brand engine because the local "technicians" are incompetent or sloppy. If we did that we would all be "rowing" our vessels back out to sea and into harbor like they did 500 plus years ago.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by Hurricane Harry

Perkins Volvo Yanmar depending on availability parts/service where you are located./Harry

The problem is that on a circumnavigation focused largely on the trade wind bands, we won't be located anywhere. Right now, I'm in Toronto, and almost every make and model is obtainable.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by Boracay

I don't know if your very nice sounding feathering propeller would take all the power. My experience suggests there's a chance.

A 1.25" shaft may be light, even for 50hp. The table on p89 of Dave Gerr's Propeller handbook puts it on the edge on my reading.

Well, the 1.25" shaft is mated with a Westerbeke W-52 at the moment and an 18 x 13 RH fixed prop with no problems. A friend has a 1.25" with a new 55 HP Volvo and an 18" three-bladed Autoprop. The Variprop I have can be set with different pitch "stops" for either reverse and forward...I plan to have a torquey setting for reverse stopping power, and a relatively shallower pitch for forward, as the type of motoring I will be doing will be "econo-drive", primarily, around the five-knot, 1,600-1,800 RPM range. The current engine can push me at 7 knots, but at the cost of noise going up and fuel economy going down.

This is why I have 60 HP as an upper limit. There is no need for more, and the bother and cost associated with going up a shaft size would be considerable. I can't see a practical difference between the 52 HP I never redlined and the 55 HP class that I'll never redline.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by cat man do

Snap

I have 2 in my build as yet haven't used them but my research showed them to be bulletproof having read plenty of stories about them just running forever.

They are actually a Komatsu (Japanese) engine and used in a lot of small excavators and mining equipment.
They spin slow and don't work hard.

They were a bit heavier than Yanmars, but also a lot cheaper but the robustness, longevity and parts availability was what I was after.

This is a factor to me because slow, torque-y and heavier by a couple of hundred pounds are no obstacle to me. The existing Westerbeke (a Mazda S2 diesel marinized and the clone of the Perkins 4-135) weighs about 700 lbs. Any replacement is likely going to be not as long, probably taller and certainly lighter.

Our engine bay (which a lot of cruisers lust after) is accessed by a 48" x 22" hatch in the pilothouse deck. This actually means that there is no upside to models like the Beta with all the consumables placed on the engine front. I have better side and top access, with port side favoured.



So I am peering at PDFs looking at the location of filters, belts and caps...

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by forsailbyowner

Wonder why people are so down on rebuilding engines. When I lived ashore I ran the same chevy 350 through 3 vehicles. I rebuilt it every time I had it pulled. It outlived two work vans and was running strong in a z28 when I sold it. I see rebuild kits all over for $500-600 for my 4.108. Complete rebuilt head for same price range. Injector pumps too. New forged aftermarket cranks are available. Ill be running this 30 year old engine for a long time to come. People seem offended that they are rated for 50 hp and put out less. I'm thrilled that my 30 hp engine has a rotating assembly overbuilt by such a large margin. Just my 2c.

I am totally in favour of a rebuild: the W-52 is 22 years old with only 1,300 freshwater hours on it. But I already know it needs new pistons and sleeves, and a full rebuild is estimated to cost $13K in Westerbeke spares.

That's outrageous when I can get a new diesel for $15K.

Anyway, because I know the block is a Mazda diesel used in the B2200 series and the Ford Ranger of the '80s, I sourced rebuild kits in Australia for just a grand or so. If I can rebuild the Westerbeke for $5K-$6K, it's a better deal and certainly less trouble. If not, the new diesel is worth it, as we are going for a long time to distant places and throwing a rod in Micronesia is a prospect I will pay now to avoid if possible.

[S/V Alchemy]

Thanks to everyone for the lively discussion. If this is of interest, I'm on Anything-sailing.com and Sailnet.com with identical queries.

[osirissail]

Final thought about availability of parts and service worldwide. If you stay with the Japanese brand names getting parts and service worldwide should not be a problem. The Japanese have been very big in establishing their presence in little countries all around the world. Their equipment and parts are readily made available at good prices for political reasons, they are looking for support to continue whaling and fishing activities. In the small island countries surrounding the Caribbean just about anything motorized is Japanese. Everything that does not move is Chinese.