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Old 14-09-2021, 05:13   #1
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Does my Perkins 4107 need oil cooling? and is PRM better than TMP gearboxes

I have a Perkins 4107 inboard driving a TMP 12000.

Background
Due to ill health & lockdown it was left afloat for two years without running and it became seized, I think due to an exhaust valve being open to the atmosphere via the heat exchanger and sea water rusted it. I have removed the head, soaked the pistons in various types of magical juice over the last few months and decided to haul out next spring and replace the engine with .....

Current situation Question 1
.....another 4107. I am taking parts from the old to the "new" and I noticed my oil filter is upwards and has cooling hoses to a heat exchange but the "new" one doesn't have a modern type. My first question is does the 4107 need an oil cooler for normal use? The TMP has its own cooling system.

Question 2 & 3
It has a TMP 12000 gearbox which I don't particularly like. It has two oil compartments, it is epicyclic, its noisy in reverse and changing from forward to aft means a pause in neutral and don't stop in gear for any reason. It has a standard dipstick for drive and a bolt dipstick for reduction.

I have a PRM Delta 20 from an old engine. It is quiet and has one oil compartment. Its a hydraulic clutch and has is a standard gear train. The dipstick is a nut on top and awkward to use. If I use this gearbox I have to drop the engine 3cm which is a whole lot of pain. So my question is, How often do you need to check the oil level in each gearbox and which is better the PRM Delta 20 or the TMP?

My instinct tells me that you don't need to cool the oil in the engine, the TMP is better than the PRM, you only need to check the level daily with the dipstick and other bolt types very occasionally.

I am sure that there are many venerable Perkins experts out there who can definitely answer my queries. Im an engineer so please avoid mansplaining, I know what an epicyclic gearbox is.
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Old 14-09-2021, 06:27   #2
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Re: Does my Perkins 4107 need oil cooling? and is PRM better than TMP gearboxes

Have the 6.354 with velvet drive transmission. Can’t speak to the transmission questions, but do have a thought on engine oil cooling. The oil cooler is plumbed first in line, ie the first heat exchanger that the sea water flows through. I’m thinking the Perkins designers meant to give oil cooling the priority.
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Old 14-09-2021, 07:02   #3
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Re: Does my Perkins 4107 need oil cooling? and is PRM better than TMP gearboxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by cr180 View Post
Iím thinking the Perkins designers meant to give oil cooling the priority.
Thanks for the comments, I tend to agree but most 4107's and 8's dont have this fitted and I wonder if there is an advantage. The new parts that are available are for a downward sitting spin on canister oil filter, The "new" engine has the old pointing backwards oil filter which is a paper filter inside a reusable container - messy. My old engine had a spin on canister with oil cooling connectors. The heat exchanger is the first raw water one encountered for cooling.
The replacement from Parts4engines for the paper one has no cooling and the canister sits 160mm below the mounting holes which will clash with my bearers.
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Old 14-09-2021, 07:51   #4
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Re: Does my Perkins 4107 need oil cooling? and is PRM better than TMP gearboxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by FionaJC View Post
I have a Perkins 4107 inboard driving a TMP 12000.

Background
Due to ill health & lockdown it was left afloat for two years without running and it became seized, I think due to an exhaust valve being open to the atmosphere via the heat exchanger and sea water rusted it. I have removed the head, soaked the pistons in various types of magical juice over the last few months and decided to haul out next spring and replace the engine with .....

Current situation Question 1
.....another 4107. I am taking parts from the old to the "new" and I noticed my oil filter is upwards and has cooling hoses to a heat exchange but the "new" one doesn't have a modern type. My first question is does the 4107 need an oil cooler for normal use? The TMP has its own cooling system.

Question 2 & 3
It has a TMP 12000 gearbox which I don't particularly like. It has two oil compartments, it is epicyclic, its noisy in reverse and changing from forward to aft means a pause in neutral and don't stop in gear for any reason. It has a standard dipstick for drive and a bolt dipstick for reduction.

I have a PRM Delta 20 from an old engine. It is quiet and has one oil compartment. Its a hydraulic clutch and has is a standard gear train. The dipstick is a nut on top and awkward to use. If I use this gearbox I have to drop the engine 3cm which is a whole lot of pain. So my question is, How often do you need to check the oil level in each gearbox and which is better the PRM Delta 20 or the TMP?

My instinct tells me that you don't need to cool the oil in the engine, the TMP is better than the PRM, you only need to check the level daily with the dipstick and other bolt types very occasionally.

I am sure that there are many venerable Perkins experts out there who can definitely answer my queries. Im an engineer so please avoid mansplaining, I know what an epicyclic gearbox is.
Since I'm of the 'man' species, think it's gonna be hard to avoid 'mansplaning'...

My experience with oil coolers on small engines is that they are very application-specific.

Liviing in England, I'd guess you may be OK without an oil cooler, though the 3 rather than 5 main bearing crank configuration would seem to put higher loads on the bearings...if you venture to points south, you may need the cooler.

The litmus test would be to test the oil temperature without the cooler after 45 minutes of full-load running; it should be in the 220 F range. If it's much over that you probably need the cooler.


Regarding the gear, seems you're leaning to the PRM, if the engine height is a problem, perhaps there are low-profile engine mounts available?

As for checking the gearbox oil, if you checked it 'yesterday', and there's no oil on the outside, or an oily sheen in the exhaust, weekly tests are quite sufficient, at least in my book. After all, where else would it go?

To ease the problems and messiness with horizontal canister-type oil changes, a remote mount spin on filter kit can be purchased complete, or can be custom-cobbled together from off-the-shelf components and hoses.
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Old 14-09-2021, 08:39   #5
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Re: Does my Perkins 4107 need oil cooling? and is PRM better than TMP gearboxes

As long as you don't try to rev the 4107's and 4108's to their marketing max revs, and settle for what you get under 3000 rpm, neither engine needs an oil cooler. My take on a cooler for these engines is just another way to contaminate the oil and complicate life.
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Old 14-09-2021, 09:15   #6
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Re: Does my Perkins 4107 need oil cooling? and is PRM better than TMP gearboxes

Thank you jimbunyard and donradcliffe, You have given me some good thoughts. Even though you are of the "man" species there was no mansplaining, I hate the "have you tried... (fill in the obvious) dear?".

All valid comments and I added in the oil cooler last time as the engine an easy to reach filter and I connected to the oil cooler on the raw inlet side that was spare from the original engine. I think I will try the cooling filter from the seized engine and make a loop back oil pipe. That way I can test the temperature under load. If its hot, i'll plumb in the cooler, if it isn't, Ill leave it uncomplicated. I have looked for a remote oil filter but there isn't one that seems an easy fit and exact match.
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