Diesel Won't Start After Filter Change

[shamrock]

My engine's stop is pulling the throttle all the way back, then it is spring loaded to go back to the idle position, and I've been crancking wide open or 1/3 throttle to try and start.

[shamrock]

Originally Posted by shakey doug

The std lift pump feeds the injection pump at around 6 psi +/- 30 psi is automotive or some common rail diesel fuel feed pressure to hp pump.Do you have the stop lever in the RUN position?

thanks for the info on the lift pump pressure.

[shakey doug]

Bleed at full throttle position,you could rig up a ultra clean aux fuel supply with a positive head to hp fuel pump. What cylinder noise reaction and exhaust colour do you get when granking with fuel at injectors and leads tightened??

[shamrock]

I'm convinced I ran water and dirt through the injector pump and am going to look for a new one. I did some reseach on parts and have found that the kubota tractor parts are way cheaper than what you can get from any marine source.

The Universal 5424 is apparently a Kubota D-1101 block off of the L245 tractor and they both use a Bosch "Mini K type" injector. Is there any reason I should not get the part from Kubota or a tractor supply company?

Also, is replacing an injector pump a job I should even attempt on my own, I know they are very precise and timing issues are involved.

Thanks!

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by shamrock

I'm convinced I ran water and dirt through the injector pump and am going to look for a new one. I did some reseach on parts and have found that the kubota tractor parts are way cheaper than what you can get from any marine source.

The Universal 5424 is apparently a Kubota D-1101 block off of the L245 tractor and they both use a Bosch "Mini K type" injector. Is there any reason I should not get the part from Kubota or a tractor supply company?

Also, is replacing an injector pump a job I should even attempt on my own, I know they are very precise and timing issues are involved.

Thanks!

Question 1. No reason at all not to buy the Kubota part if it's the same injector. There is no marinizing injector pumps like there might be with other parts of an engine like the heat exchanger, raw water system, alternators, etc.

Question 2. Not certain about all the details of swapping an injector pump but there are timing issues. If not sure get an expert. Much cheaper than buying yet another pump.

[shakey doug]

If you want to SAVE a few shackles try rigging up a clean external fuel supply direct to fuel injection pump and bleed pump free of air then remove injector lines from the top of injection pump put stop lever to RUN position advance throttle to FULL, grank engine over you should then see fuel rising & falling at delivery valves along top of fuel pump if so reconnect injector lines and undo them at the injector if not already done,grank over untill fuel arrives at pipe end then reconnect to injector,motor should now start if not get a good diesel mech in not a automotive mech. To remove injection pump undo all leads hoses hold down bolts etc wriggle pump and lift out be CAREFULL!! not damage under joint & shims as they adjust the injection timing, a good fuel injection shop will be able to check out pump elements & delivery valves for terminal damage. Still interested in exhaust colour as per previous post!

[Ex-Calif]

This is sacrilege but before buying a new injector pump I would buy a can of the ether quick start stuff and spray it in the inlet while cranking.

Barring that I would do a compression test. In troubleshooting problems there is correlation and causation.

You have a had start problem that you correlated with a filter that has "dirty" water in it. In the process you are fixated on the fuel system and have stopped troubleshooting for other problems.

In other words lack of fuel has not been determined to be the cause. If the engine fires with ether then it's back to the fuel theory.

A new injector pump is a mighty expensive troubleshooting tool.

[shamrock]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

This is sacrilege but before buying a new injector pump I would buy a can of the ether quick start stuff and spray it in the inlet while cranking.

Barring that I would do a compression test. In troubleshooting problems there is correlation and causation.

You have a had start problem that you correlated with a filter that has "dirty" water in it. In the process you are fixated on the fuel system and have stopped troubleshooting for other problems.

In other words lack of fuel has not been determined to be the cause. If the engine fires with ether then it's back to the fuel theory.

A new injector pump is a mighty expensive troubleshooting tool.

Thanks Ex-Calif, I hear you!

the engine will run on Wd40 with no problem, that paired with the fact that nothing is coming out of the injector pump, even with the motor running on wd40 is causing me to really suspect the injector pump.

So I just tried to remove it which required me to remove the intake maniforld and the throtle linkage.

I unbolted the injector pump and it took a little effort to break the seal, but I was able to lift it up about a half an inch and then it just got stuck. I can rock it backand forth, butcan't seem to get it to separate from the two bolts that stick up.

What is the trick to getting the pump to lift out of the housing?

Thanks

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by shamrock

Thanks Ex-Calif, I hear you!

the engine will run on Wd40 with no problem, that paired with the fact that nothing is coming out of the injector pump, even with the motor running on wd40 is causing me to really suspect the injector pump.

So I just tried to remove it which required me to remove the intake maniforld and the throtle linkage.

I unbolted the injector pump and it took a little effort to break the seal, but I was able to lift it up about a half an inch and then it just got stuck. I can rock it backand forth, butcan't seem to get it to separate from the two bolts that stick up.

What is the trick to getting the pump to lift out of the housing?

Thanks

Looking at the manual that Gord posted it doesn't look like there is any trick to it other than meshing the gears. There is an hour meter version, don't know how that plays into the mounting.

[shamrock]

Also, I noticed for the first time what appeared to be some hardened carbonized soot leaking from the middle injector. It has been there for some time because you can see the bronze paint over it.

Has anybody seen this before and know what it is?

I was able to scrap it away with a screw driver and wound up with what looked like little pieces of coal.

Thanks

[shamrock]

Two other photos...

[shamrock]

So, I got just got her running. As it turns out the pin on the injector pump that controls the throttle was stuck. I pulled the injector pump, which was stuck, because the pin was stuck in "stop" mode, the pin needs to be in idle position to pass through a slot in the housing and separate from the block.

I tapped the pin with a punch to get it to the right place, the injector pump came right out. I soaked the pin with wd40 and slid it back and forth until it moved freely. Put the injector pump back on, rebled the system, cranked and finally saw diesel spurting out of the injector pump. Put the fuel lines back on and she started right up and ran perfectly.

For anyone with a universal diesel, this should be part of trouble shooting fuel delivery problems. I just saw a youtube video of the same issue on a Kubota tractor engine.

Thanks everyone for your help!

I'm still trying to figure out what the black stuff is on top of my block?? I'm thinking it might be a leak in the injector or something.

[DSDman]

I had a feeling!

[shamrock]

DSDman, are we talking about the same thing? I had to pull out the injector pump to get to this pin. My engine does not have a shut off lever. The throttle serves this function if you pull it back past idle, the it springs back to idle when you release.

[DSDman]

I think basically we are. No matter the way the shut off lever is rigged they basically all do the same thing. By mechanically moving something we shut the fuel flow off in the injector pump. To get it going again you have to mechanically move it back. You have a spring that does that, I have to push it back. So even though your spring, sprang the lever back to run it didn't move the pin in the pump. Mine won't seat the same pin because of the mechanical linkage, yours because it was gummed up in the pump.