Complete loss of oil in new boat due to loose oil filter, is the manufacturer liable

[JuryRigJalopy]

A new boat that I own had it's oil filter come loose just before it's first scheduled oil change at 500 hours, oil filter was still painted blue from factory. The 4 cylinder 38 HP diesel engine ran at idle for about 20 minutes with zero oil pressure before being noticed (dummy light was also faulty). Oil was changed, oil reports were sent for analysis after 3 subsequent oil changes with no excessive metal noticed. No issues in compression, RPM, oil consumption, or heat.

....... should the manufacturer be liable for a new engine if it was under warranty even though there is no noticeable performance loss? It is my assumption that excessive wear was caused by this and the engine will need a major overhaul sooner than it would otherwise even if there are no signs of issues after running with no oil. This overhaul would be needed after the warranty is expired.

I assume the engine should achieve a bare minimum of 5k hours if ran hard and 10-15k hours if it was maintained and operated optimally. Any guess to how much this even decreased the life of the engine?

[Brioche]

Any time you run an engine it wears a little bit and eventually wears out; certainly running without oil will wear it more, but just as some engines last much longer than others there are too many variables to predict how this will affect you. It is doubtful you could make an effective legal claim (in court) and get relief - about the only relief you could get there would be a new engine, and that won't happen. On the other hand, the manufacturer should give you something for this, and a strongly worded letter may well get some concession beyond oil and a new filter. It would also be important to create a history so if the engine breaks down six months from now you have documented the earlier failure - then you might get a new engine.

[Jebtrois]

500 hours and you never inspected the engine or filters? My opinion is that the manufacturer may have had exposure if this was the first 20 minutes, but 500 sits squarely on captain for not inspecting your rig. As an aside, is your oil change interval really 500 hours?
JEB

[Lepke]

Steam engines run about the speed of your idle without pressurized oil. Just by drip or manually oiled every half hour or so. I don't think you had much bearing wear. But cylinders, rings, and wrist pin depend on the oil flying off the rod bearings for lube. After a few minutes most of that oil is gone. That's where most of any wear would happen.

You probably need 3rd party verification of the oil filter failure to have a chance at a new engine.

[JuryRigJalopy]

Originally Posted by Jebtrois

500 hours and you never inspected the engine or filters? My opinion is that the manufacturer may have had exposure if this was the first 20 minutes, but 500 sits squarely on captain for not inspecting your rig. As an aside, is your oil change interval really 500 hours?
JEB

Do you check the tightness of your oil filter between oil changes? We have since added a hose clamp on the filter and wired tied the filter to prevent this from happening again. I have learned that airplanes and some race vehicles wire tie filters, some of their filters have a hole on the bottom removal nut for this reason. I thought I was giving the engine a thorough check but have never seen a filter come loose so I don't check, overtightening is bad as well.

I apologize, I mis-typed, we are at 500 hours now. The loss of oil was at just under 250 hours. We received the boat with ~100 hours and the maintenance log indicated the oil was changed at the recommended 50 hours (which it obviously was not since the oil filter was still painted) but that's another issue.

[BlueH2Obound]

And now that you've posted the fact that the engine was run for 20 minutes without oil in it on a public forum, good luck ever making a warranty claim in the future!
The only person you need to be consulting, is an attorney, not a bunch of yahoos on an internet forum . . . .
Also, as alluded to above, when did the manufacturer recommend the first scheduled (break in) oil change to be?!? Certainly before 500 hours I would think . . . .

[JuryRigJalopy]

Originally Posted by BlueH2Obound

And now that you've posted the fact that the engine was run for 20 minutes without oil in it on a public forum, good luck ever making a warranty claim in the future!
The only person you need to be consulting, is an attorney, not a bunch of yahoos on an internet forum . . . .
Also, as alluded to above, when did the manufacturer recommend the first scheduled (break in) oil change to be?!? Certainly before 500 hours I would think . . . .

I did not start it without oil in it, the oil came out due to the oil filter coming loose. I should have noticed the oil pressure was at zero but the oil pressure alarm should have turned on as well.

Oil should have been changed at 50 hours (break in) and the maintenance log indicated it was but most likely was not since the oil filter was still painted.

I wish I could edit my post, I am at 500 hours now, the loss of oil was at under 250 hours. Manufacturer recommends oil change at 250 hours. If it was changed at 50 hours then I'd be due at 300 hours.

[Jebtrois]

Yes, I do check the filters each time I check the oil and also check the sight glasses on my diesel filters. I am responsible for my boat and passengers/family I bring aboard. If the oil was changed at 50 hours then clearly the manufacturer has no responsibility now. If it wasn't changed and you ran it anyway then it falls to you either way. If you owned it from new and didn't do service at 50 it also falls on you. The reason that planes etc can mouse their filters is because vibration 'can' loosen them causing catastrophic failure. This is a good reason to check your filters just by giving a little grip when you check the oil.
JEB

[SVTatia]

Originally Posted by JuryRigJalopy

I did not start it without oil in it, the oil came out due to the oil filter coming loose. I should have noticed the oil pressure was at zero but the oil pressure alarm should have turned on as well.



Oil should have been changed at 50 hours (break in) and the maintenance log indicated it was but most likely was not since the oil filter was still painted.



I wish I could edit my post, I am at 500 hours now, the loss of oil was at under 250 hours. Manufacturer recommends oil change at 250 hours. If it was changed at 50 hours then I'd be due at 300 hours.

I guess there is an assumption that the filter was changed with the oil, but maybe not. If they said the oil was changed, it may have been, but they did not follow the correct maintenance procedure.

[Rumrace]

I’m sorry from what you’ve said you did not negate damage.
It’s a good practice to check factory oil on anything. I bought a brand new 4 X 4 and took it right over to change all the axels transfer case and transmission over to synthetic. The rear diff was below GM spec cause oil should have been right at the weep hole. GM was at fault but prove it.
Safe to say most factories pack off boats with average oil. I have a thing for oils and change them to specific oils I prefer.

Anyway sounds like it’s all on you. The first oil change removes all the fillings in a cast iron engine. Removing the stink from the bilge not easy. I’d start with a couple oil sausage and pump it into containers dispose of legal like.

New boats have lots of problems. Check hose clamps plugs on electronics seated properly. All lights and connectors. You said an indicator is out. Check all sensors gauges fuses.

[ItDepends]

So, every time you started the engine, the oil pressure alarm did NOT go off... and you did not notice this?

Every engine I have ever used when electrical power is first applied, the light comes on and the buzzer sounds because... LOW OIL PRESSURE.

I also wonder, how you have decided that it ran for "20 minutes" without oil? How did you figure out after the fact when the oil pressure first fell to zero?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by ItDepends

So, every time you started the engine, the oil pressure alarm did NOT go off... and you did not notice this?

Every engine I have ever used when electrical power is first applied, the light comes on and the buzzer sounds because... LOW OIL PRESSURE.

I've seen some setups wired with a few second delay for the buzzer so it doesn't trigger on a normal startup, but you can test it by leaving the key on for a few seconds without starting the engine.

[boatpoker]

I have a hard time believing any eng. mfg. does not advise a new engine break in oil change well before 500hrs. 50 or 100hrs is typical.

I also believe that anyone that does not check their oil regularly is the master of his own disaster.

[JuryRigJalopy]

Originally Posted by ItDepends

So, every time you started the engine, the oil pressure alarm did NOT go off... and you did not notice this?

Every engine I have ever used when electrical power is first applied, the light comes on and the buzzer sounds because... LOW OIL PRESSURE.

I also wonder, how you have decided that it ran for "20 minutes" without oil? How did you figure out after the fact when the oil pressure first fell to zero?

I have a system that logs all the engine data. See plot showing startup to zero oil pressure.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by JuryRigJalopy

D
I apologize, I mis-typed, we are at 500 hours now. The loss of oil was at just under 250 hours. We received the boat with ~100 hours and the maintenance log indicated the oil was changed at the recommended 50 hours (which it obviously was not since the oil filter was still painted) but that's another issue.

How did a new boat acquire 100hrs at delivery ?

Who wrote the maintenance log ?

How do you know the supposedly changed filter was not the same colour of the original ?