Beta or Westerbeke for repower?

[Carl1956]

I cannot recommend Beta marine, their warranty and after sale service is miserable to non existent , go with a Nanni engine. the hole story here:
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3597200

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by Carl1956

I cannot recommend Beta marine, their warranty and after sale service is miserable to non existent , go with a Nanni engine. the hole story here:
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3597200

That is not my experience in the UK and USA. Can you elaborate?

[skipperpete]

I know the OP was about the choice between Betamarine and Westerbeke but spare a thought for Vetus, they do a fairly good job of marinising a couple of brands of really good industrial diesel engines, the only sticking point for me would be the Technodrive gearbox but if a ZF gearbox was available Vetus would be a solid reliable small yacht engine.

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by Carl1956

I cannot recommend Beta marine, their warranty and after sale service is miserable to non existent , go with a Nanni engine. the hole story here:
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3597200

Carl, I read your complaint about Betamarine and my experience with their response to warranty claims and engine problems is the exact opposite to yours. They sent new alternators to a yacht in Malaysia to correct a charging problem twice, and I installed the last of 3 gearboxes in a charter yacht after a series of damaging failures, all were covered by warranty. I only dealt with the UK factory during these incidents, the local Betamarine agent was a total disaster.
As to your own warranty problems, and to be perfectly frank, an engine left untouched for a year after delivery requires a very specific startup procedure which includes establishing that the stop control actually cuts off the fuel supply to the injectors,.... injector pump plungers seize or get sticky with monotonous regularity and a half decent diesel mechanic won’t wonder “ will she start?”, the smart tech asks himself “ will I be able to stop the damn thing?” And takes precautions before trying to fire it up.... these precautions also include bring up the oil pressure with an external feed, replacing the water pump">raw water pump impeller and turning off the seawater intake until it clear that the engine will start. There’s more of this but its a topic for another time.
I’m not a fan of R&D damper plates, but a badly installed one is something you should have discussed with both R&D as well as Betamarine, a lot of plate failures are caused by the well documented Technodrive “Clunk” in and out of gear. ( often uncommanded)
I have no connection with Betamarine and have long been a vigorous critic of their agent structure that excludes direct involvement with the head office for engine purchases outside the agent.

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by Carl1956

I cannot recommend Beta marine, their warranty and after sale service is miserable to non existent , go with a Nanni engine. the hole story here:
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3597200

OK, I went back and read your post.

I had great factory support when purchasing and installing my Beta 50 in England. I worked directly with the factory and the managing director (maybe founder) in 2003. I didn't let the engine sit for a year before installing. Had it in a week after delivery.

Still, sorry you had trouble but you must admit that you were dealing with a local agent over a year after purchase. Who knows how that engine was handled in that time? Gelled fuel after sitting for over a year. Bent fuel pump lever - was that the external priming lever? Could it have been bumped during installation?

Can't comment on the damper plate. Mine is still the original after 20 years and 4500 hours.

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

Here’s one more vote for Betamarine from a fairly dedicated Yanmar fan. Beta do a good job with the whole process, marinisation , deelivery, special requests re footprint, even after sales service is above and beyond what I would normally expect, my only negative is the technodrive gearbox but Betamarine have a few other options regarding the choice of transmission if you choose to avoid the “ Techno”

What's the issue with the Technodrive gearbox?

[Icarus]

A lot cheaper and easier to rebuild the 4108...Same footprint, prop, gearbox.. exhaust
Beta is ok a bit on the light side.

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by Icarus

What's the issue with the Technodrive gearbox?

Do a search online there are a lot of disgruntled Technodrive owners. I spent a fair bit of time fixing them, now I avoid em completely.

[FTS]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Westerbeke . . . Avoid those people if at all possible.

Originally Posted by capt jgw

I had the same issue with injector nozzles . . . Independent sellers like NAPA don't care but you'll need the Kubota part numbers

The M12 is a marinized Kubota Z400, which I understand was widely used as a small industrial engine. I haven't found the Kubota serial number. I've looked, even engaged in upside down boat yoga in a rope locker and still no luck.

So I went the other route, pulled the plugs, saw the NGK part number and was able to sort it out at the counter.

Random thought: maybe we're thinking about this the wrong way. Perhaps the correct approach is to use a Westerbeke if it's an easier swap, just know which block it's actually built on?

[MVDarlin]

Dont understand your avoidance of Yanmar, best solution.

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by MVDarlin

Dont understand your avoidance of Yanmar, best solution.

Yanmar is the best solution in your opinion. I, and many others disagree.

[jen1722terry]

Hello again,

One of the prior posts mentioned that you will have to re-pitch your prop if you switch to Beta. This was true for our Beta 25. Apparently the installer wasn't aware of this need, so we had some exhaust smoke when we picked up the boat after the re-power. Then we had to sit at the installers wharf for a few weeks waiting for the prop.

So, if you repowering with a Beta, plan to send out the prop early for re-pitching so you'll have it when the install is done.

Other than the above, the installation was great. Love the motor. Uses a lot less fuel and is somewhat quieter.

Cheers to all of you.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by stormalong

Yanmar is the best solution in your opinion. I, and many others disagree.

Do they ship directly to a buyer? Some companies don't like to do that. The new Yanmars, do they have all the fancy electronics and stuff, or are they still nice traditional diesels?

Honestly, for a boat the size we are usually talking about, it's pretty hard to beat the Beta. The Yanmar is probably a little more fuel efficient, but with a sailboat that isn't as important as a motorboat. Not super high tech but that's fine. Easy to work on and do user level maintenance. The engine parts are priced reasonably, and the marine add-on parts actually aren't all that bad. Plus, and I might be wrong on this, there is at least one model that you can get with the most common 4-107/4-108 footprint, and that is what the OP is wanting to replace. It's the simple way to gitter done, other than a rebuild in place of the old Westerbeast.

I can't put down the Yanmar because I don't have first hand experience with one except helping neighbors in the marina by knowing approximately where to beat with a hammer or spray ether. Betas I know a little. Universals, Perkies, Westerbeasts, I know. If buying brand new in the crate, gimme the Beta. A rebuild? Perkins based Westerbeke. Good bang for the buck, either choice. You can get either one without going through a factory blessed installer/dealer.

If you want to have it professionally installed anyway, maybe the Yanmar would be worth considering.

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

Do they ship directly to a buyer? Some companies don't like to do that. The new Yanmars, do they have all the fancy electronics and stuff, or are they still nice traditional diesels?

Honestly, for a boat the size we are usually talking about, it's pretty hard to beat the Beta. The Yanmar is probably a little more fuel efficient, but with a sailboat that isn't as important as a motorboat. Not super high tech but that's fine. Easy to work on and do user level maintenance. The engine parts are priced reasonably, and the marine add-on parts actually aren't all that bad. Plus, and I might be wrong on this, there is at least one model that you can get with the most common 4-107/4-108 footprint, and that is what the OP is wanting to replace. It's the simple way to gitter done, other than a rebuild in place of the old Westerbeast.

I can't put down the Yanmar because I don't have first hand experience with one except helping neighbors in the marina by knowing approximately where to beat with a hammer or spray ether. Betas I know a little. Universals, Perkies, Westerbeasts, I know. If buying brand new in the crate, gimme the Beta. A rebuild? Perkins based Westerbeke. Good bang for the buck, either choice. You can get either one without going through a factory blessed installer/dealer.

If you want to have it professionally installed anyway, maybe the Yanmar would be worth considering.

GrowleyMonster brings out some of the negatives as I see them. Someone here can correct me if my following remarks are wrong.

The Yanmar, although claiming to be engineered for marine use had one engine where changing the raw water impeller required the removal of an engine mount. How can this be engineered for marine use. An impeller change, that may have to be done due to an unplanned failure should not be an big undertaking. This shoots holes in their "engineered for marine use" sales pitch.

In the size of engine we are discussing here the Yanmar requires a three inch exhaust system, Perkins, Beta, and the other engines I looked at (20 years ago) required two inch exhaust systems. That adds an exhaust system rework to the cost and time of the install.

According to what I have read the new Yanmars are computer controlled. A computer failure at sea and your engine is dead until you get to an AUTHORIZED Yanmar dealer.

The engine installation must be performed by or inspected by a Yanmar dealer to get warranty coverage. All work must be done by a Yanmar certified mechanic to remain under warranty, even oil changes.

Parts are only available from Yanmar at very high markups.



The Beta 50 is a little narrower and about an inch longer than the 4-108. When I replaced my 4-108 in 2003 the factory did custom engine brackets which saved a huge amount of time. The mounts had different hole centers and the custom brackets were designed so that one hole of each foot matched an existing hole therefore I only needed to drill one hole per foot. Beta said there is no standard 4-108 engine bracket standard. I measured and re measured and then had a friend measure and only committed to the dimensions when I could consistently get the same measurements.

Working directly with the factory helped considerably. I got to inspect the engine before shipping which was very helpful. I discovered two errors at the factory. The custom brackets did not match the specs we had agreed to and the oil drain was installed assuming the slope of the engine was set for a straight transmission while I had a V drive. Both of these had been correctly specified in the engine order and when pointed out at the inspection were corrected before the engine was shipped. BTW, since I used my existing transmission which was painted Perkins blue They painted my engine Kubota blue. I may have the only blue Beta in existence.

The Beta 50 and the Perkins 4-108 have the exhaust in almost exactly the same place. I didn't have to do anything to the exhaust, not even adjusting the hose length.

Because of the custom brackets the install went very fast. The old 4-108 was hauled out on a Friday. Over the weekend my now wife and I scrubbed and painted engine bed and the holes were drilled for the larger feet. On Monday morning the new engine was lifted in and set in place. By Wednesday afternoon the engine was test started. We were facing a deadline because Beta arranged for a mechanic to have a look at the install and he was leaving town. The install was not done but the mechanic was happy with what was done. By the following Monday we left the marina and that included a couple of days off for a land excursion. It was a lot of work and a lot of planning but it went very well.

[Bowdrie]

Looking at the Yanmar 3JH40 and the Beta 43 I would think it's a no brainer.
The Beta has ~20% more displacement and 4 cylinders and gets full power at less RPM.
The Yanmar with less displacement and only 3 cylinders and ~100lbs lighter is obviously a more highly stressed engine for its power.
Perhaps subjective, but the Beta "looks" like an engine, it's not covered up with a plethora of bolted-on stuff covering its exterior.
It has the presence of a mechanical device that's user friendly.
The Yanmar by comparison have a very cluttered appearance, they make you wonder what's underneath everything, like, "Is there a real engine inside all of this?"
It doesn't take a mechanic to surmise which one of them is easier to work on and keep clean.