Small catamarans

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by KJThomas

Outboards work fine, but you do need to carry rather a lot of petrol which negates their weight advantage over diesels..

We get around 2.5 nm per litre running one outboard. The two outboards weigh about 150 kg less than similar power diesels. I doubt the difference in fuel consumption would require carrying an extra 160 litres of fuel.

Then add in the reduced drag from not dragging props and saildrive legs, and I doubt I'd need to carry any extra fuel at all.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

We get around 2.5 nm per litre running one outboard. The two outboards weigh about 150 kg less than similar power diesels. I doubt the difference in fuel consumption would require carrying an extra 160 litres of fuel.

Then add in the reduced drag from not dragging props and saildrive legs, and I doubt I'd need to carry any extra fuel at all.

I have read much about your catamaran and see the videos. Its hard to believe that I missed the fact that you use outboards! This only impresses me further regarding your build.

There is an aversion in me to the smell of diesel. Got so tired of trying to clean up the odour after a fill spill or a mild leak that saturated all the clothes and cushions. Everyone quotes safety concerns regarding petrol, yet contained right and using the correct pipes etc, I see no reason for anxiety the same as using the petrol in a car.

Happy to know a vessel such as yours is diesel free.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by catsketcher

Also, be wary of confirmation bias,

Excellent point when diesel discussions come up.

Often, it uses confirmations that were once true as the justification. 40yrs ago, simple mechanical naturally aspirated diesel held a lot of advantages over the old fuel sucking balky 2 stroke outboards of the day.

The old salt who bought a diesel based on the old technological assumptions doesn't want to admit those assumptions may have been outdated so we hear stories about needing extra fuel making the boat heavier and gas powered boats are sure to explode.

[mikedefieslife]

Modern FI outboards are more efficient than the ancient mechanical diesels. Fancy electronics will see to that. However since diesel contains more energy per litre than petrol, there it tends be even when comparing mpg between inboard diesels and outboards. In Europe though, diesel is significantly cheaper than petrol, and in some countries, you can run red diesel which is cheaper still.

For the same HP, an outboard will be 50-60% of the weight of a diesel (once you include the gearbox and drive). Of course with that you lose decent charging capacity, so add another 20kg for generator.

It is strange people talk about the smell of diesel, but unless it's been added it isn't particularly strong. I've got some red diesel here and that absolutely stinks, but the regular diesel doesn't smell much at all unless you stick your nose in the can. Petrol on the other hand has a crazy strong smell that gets everywhere (in the even of a tiny spill)

Anyway, I suppose this isn't a thread about powering.

I do find it odd that someone mentioned cats in the 40' plus range in a small Catamaran thread. I'd say there are the more the mainstrean, or regular size, and anything less than say a Lagoon 380 is small.

[boatman61]

I believe England is now the only country where you can use red diesel.. if you have it in your tanks and are inspected in France your busted.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

It is strange people talk about the smell of diesel, but unless it's been added it isn't particularly strong. I've got some red diesel here and that absolutely stinks, but the regular diesel doesn't smell much at all unless you stick your nose in the can. Petrol on the other hand has a crazy strong smell that gets everywhere (in the even of a tiny spill)

I guess we disagree on the smell of diesel.

[tour]

44C and Cat sketcher could you please post some photos of your outboard pods and placement. i would like to know more of what you have learned with yr experience.. engines in the down position as well as up and out of the way. that is if you have it nearby. thanks

[Training Wheels]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I believe England is now the only country where you can use red diesel.. if you have it in your tanks and are inspected in France your busted.

In the US, red diesel is fuel that road taxes are not paid. Boats and things like off-road or equipment use red diesel. The only difference is the dye. If a truck goes through a truck scales
It Will likely be checked that there is no red diesel in its tanks, as no road taxes have been paid.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by SteveG58

I would like to hear if there are couples / families that have done some extended sailing on small (30 ft) catamarans?

We would mainly mainly be in the tropics but still have to get there!
What have you found to be the biggest drawbacks (if any). (I am aware of the obvious overloading.)

Many thanks
Steve

Not sure where you have to "get there" from but I will point out even in the Florida Keys an open style salon like my Seawind is a great bonus in warm weather and in hot weather it really makes a big difference. On the other hand even in North Florida it can get real cold during the winter.

Not sure what you call extended sailing but I spent three months in the Mule Keys, Marquesas, and DT never going inside a store and when I got back to BKH I was not able to empty a 5 gallon jerry can to fill the tanks for my two outboards. Keep in mind that for most of sailing history it was just that sailing and even in most of the 20th century many sailboats were just that sailboats with no motors. I can recall several boats I sailed on in the 1950s that only had Seagull outboards for getting in and out of slips and tight channels. Today it seems like a lot of folks like condomarans with huge fuel tanks and the motor when in the past folks would sail. Do a search on why catamarans always motor and you will find several threads about peeps who motor more than they sail.

Not trying to did anyone and I am always happy to see folks on the water, especially in multihulls. But what you need to do is figure out what type of sailor you (and your crew) will be. Do you intend to time your passages based on a good weather window or just motor into a 20 knot breeze. Do you need AC or can you (and your crew) deal with sleeping in a tropical breeze or maybe a little fan; often times with little or no clothing. Can you deal with jumping off the sugarscoops into the ocean, lathering up with Dawn, jumping back in to rinse off, and then a quick rinse with a pump up water tank">fresh water tank; or do you need a hot shower inside one of the hulls. Same thing about needing ice, or is something like an Engle providing cool drinks.

By now you should be getting my point that some folks can deal with a bare minimum of creature comforts while others have a higher standard. Also keep in mind that even on 100 footers costing seven figures it can get uncomfortable if the weather takes a turn for the worst.

Is it worth spending more money than you first think to be cold and wet and then hot and sweaty sleeping in a small bunk or on deck. For me it is because the upside is the great beauty of being on the water and going different places. But I also know plenty of folks who would rather spend less and fly to far away places and sleep in hotels.

[catsketcher]

Gday Tour

I only have the computer drawings of the motor pods I just put in. The idea is that the pod rotates rather than the outboard. This means that 90% of the time I have a very clean underneath. I really disliked my old pod.

The first pod was a small affair that also pivoted. It was just big enough to take a Honda 25. It was very sharp and hardly ever slammed, even when down. It rotated about 45 degrees and the motor then tilted some more. It went into a large box we had instead of a proper cockpit.

Then someone stole the motor and the pod. However it was in reality a good thing as I got a new one on insurance. But I made a mistake and used a non rotating pod that a neighbour had the mould for. It was very rounded and pounded like anything. So after a couple of years I went to two outboards and pivoted the pods/nacelles.

My boat does not have chamfer panels or I probably would have gone the Oram approach. (Look in the boat design thread). So my outboards raise into the interior (I have spare room) and are plenty deep enough for motoring. Seawinds have a somewhat similar approach and rotate the mount but not the pod. It gets the outboards out of the water.

More on this thread

https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/o...acelles.51157/

cheers

Phil

[stearman65]

We are new to this forum & have searched for any info' on this thread on the Fisher "Catfisher" 28 we owned in 1996. These boats were made in 28 32 & 38ft sizes I believe. I have seen them also advertised under the name of Juno or Jumbo, & possibly built in Germany. They were marketed by Fairways Marine I believe. Before buying ours, I had always admired what I had seen advertised in magazines, (prior to the 'net). At the time we were looking for a replacement for our Mirage 28 cruiser following a traumatic sail back from the Isle of Mann. We hadn't seen "Seahorse of St Lucia" (as she was then called,) advertised & was wandering around Kip Marina in Scotland & there she was for sale. Following a quick inspection & trial sail (motoring only) we were hooked & made an offer subject to survey. Eventually despite a number of problems being found (rusty leaking fuel tank) we bought her, re-named her "Gemini Magic" & re-located her to Largs marina a few miles down the coast. To cut a long story short, she was a pig to sail & motoring into the "Clyde Chop" (short steep seas) was akin to being on a bumpy track. Eventually, after replacing the fuel tank, I sailed her to Pwllheli in Wales & put her up for sale.
The details of the boat where as follows, length 28ft beam 13ft draft 3ft 5in. Sloop rigged, engine single Mercedes OM636 diesel, with hydraulic drives to twin props. 3 double berths, wheelhouse convertable to a massive berth. Great as a houseboat but not for the serious sailor.

[SteveG58]

Originally Posted by tomfl

Not sure where you have to "get there" from but I will point out even in the Florida Keys an open style salon like my Seawind is a great bonus in warm weather and in hot weather it really makes a big difference. On the other hand even in North Florida it can get real cold during the winter.



Not sure what you call extended sailing but I spent three months in the Mule Keys, Marquesas, and DT never going inside a store and when I got back to BKH I was not able to empty a 5 gallon jerry can to fill the tanks for my two outboards. Keep in mind that for most of sailing history it was just that sailing and even in most of the 20th century many sailboats were just that sailboats with no motors. I can recall several boats I sailed on in the 1950s that only had Seagull outboards for getting in and out of slips and tight channels. Today it seems like a lot of folks like condomarans with huge fuel tanks and the motor when in the past folks would sail. Do a search on why catamarans always motor and you will find several threads about peeps who motor more than they sail.



Not trying to did anyone and I am always happy to see folks on the water, especially in multihulls. But what you need to do is figure out what type of sailor you (and your crew) will be. Do you intend to time your passages based on a good weather window or just motor into a 20 knot breeze. Do you need AC or can you (and your crew) deal with sleeping in a tropical breeze or maybe a little fan; often times with little or no clothing. Can you deal with jumping off the sugarscoops into the ocean, lathering up with Dawn, jumping back in to rinse off, and then a quick rinse with a pump up fresh water tank; or do you need a hot shower inside one of the hulls. Same thing about needing ice, or is something like an Engle providing cool drinks.



By now you should be getting my point that some folks can deal with a bare minimum of creature comforts while others have a higher standard. Also keep in mind that even on 100 footers costing seven figures it can get uncomfortable if the weather takes a turn for the worst.



Is it worth spending more money than you first think to be cold and wet and then hot and sweaty sleeping in a small bunk or on deck. For me it is because the upside is the great beauty of being on the water and going different places. But I also know plenty of folks who would rather spend less and fly to far away places and sleep in hotels.

Thanks Tom. I think you correctly sum it up!

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by stearman65

We are new to this forum & have searched for any info' on this thread on the Fisher "Catfisher" 28 we owned in 1996. These boats were made in 28 32 & 38ft sizes I believe. I have seen them also advertised under the name of Juno or Jumbo, & possibly built in Germany. They were marketed by Fairways Marine I believe. Before buying ours, I had always admired what I had seen advertised in magazines, (prior to the 'net). At the time we were looking for a replacement for our Mirage 28 cruiser following a traumatic sail back from the Isle of Mann. We hadn't seen "Seahorse of St Lucia" (as she was then called,) advertised & was wandering around Kip Marina in Scotland & there she was for sale. Following a quick inspection & trial sail (motoring only) we were hooked & made an offer subject to survey. Eventually despite a number of problems being found (rusty leaking fuel tank) we bought her, re-named her "Gemini Magic" & re-located her to Largs marina a few miles down the coast. To cut a long story short, she was a pig to sail & motoring into the "Clyde Chop" (short steep seas) was akin to being on a bumpy track. Eventually, after replacing the fuel tank, I sailed her to Pwllheli in Wales & put her up for sale.
The details of the boat where as follows, length 28ft beam 13ft draft 3ft 5in. Sloop rigged, engine single Mercedes OM636 diesel, with hydraulic drives to twin props. 3 double berths, wheelhouse convertable to a massive berth. Great as a houseboat but not for the serious sailor.

My understanding is the 32 was the exact same boat but lengthened to make it more sea kindly. With narrow canoe sterns, there wasn't much to resist hobby horsing. Still doubt it will be a high performance boat but if you can't tell that just from a quick look...well...

I've been on one and it had better accommodations than most 45' monos.

[smj]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

My understanding is the 32 was the exact same boat but lengthened to make it more sea kindly. With narrow canoe sterns, there wasn't much to resist hobby horsing. Still doubt it will be a high performance boat but if you can't tell that just from a quick look...well...



I've been on one and it had better accommodations than most 45' monos.

The 32still hobby horsed like crazy and is far from a performance catamaran.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by smj

The 32still hobby horsed like crazy and is far from a performance catamaran.

Apparently my comment about performance was too subtle.