S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Hearts Content

Like so kewl 50-60 year old men like acting like children. It's like totally tubular and like like really gnarly!

Yep, this is the Cruisers Forum!

[Polux]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

You "rectified' the false statements you had made only after someone else pointed them out!

You sometimes are well...interesting. Obviously if I am mistaken, but in good faith, I can only be aware that I am mistaken if somebody points out that I am mistaken

What I mean is that when I am mistaken I quickly rectify the data, as soon as I am aware of it, and don't indulge in some silly discussion about facts or try to disguise them.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Factor

Please don't accuse me of making things up, I said
Further ...

"Quote"One swallow does not make a summer, one video does not amount to proof. Yesterday I sailed a Seawind 1250 in a social race, we outpointed a Farr40 and went quicker. Do I now believe that all multis outpoint all monos - well NO. I don't even believe we could outpoint all Farr 40s.

Or is he making things up as well?

Again, I never commented that quote or made any reference regarding the comparative performance of a Farr40 compared with any cat, as you said I had done.

Anyway that is an odd quote: "I don't even believe we could outpoint all Farr 40s"???? It seems to me that a boat can outpoint another one or can't and that's considering equal sail quality and equally experienced crew.
A lesser sailboat can outpoint a better sailboat if the crew of the lesser one is a much better one, if the sails are much better and so on.

After all you are saying that a Farr40 points better than a Seawind 1250 or the other way around?

[canadian cat]

And now back to the regular program.

In the Delos Baramundi video two things caught my eye. First the skipper of the cat had the auto pilot on. For sailing up wind the auto pilot is not as good as a human.
Second thing that made me wonder and it is hard to tell with the video, but I would think that the cat should be moving through the water much faster when the wind is up. There is one point in the video that Delos has moved much farther forward when the wind is up. I wonder if the cat was too worried about staying high and not max VMG to weather. Put autopilot and pinching together and the boat is not going to get up wind very fast.

[Lizzy Belle]

Originally Posted by Hearts Content

Like so kewl 50-60 year old men like acting like children. It's like totally tubular and like like really gnarly!

.....

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Polux

You sometimes are well...interesting. Obviously if I am mistaken, but in good faith, I can only be aware that I am mistaken if somebody points out that I am mistaken

What I mean is that when I am mistaken I quickly rectify the data, as soon as I am aware of it, and don't indulge in some silly discussion about facts or try to disguise them.

So how can you be mistaken about the types of sails used to generate polar diagrams? You either know, or you don't know. If you don't know you should either admit that, or keep quiet. Not just invent your own "fact".

As an example - when you said the Barramundi draws 5'6" or 7'6" or whatever you said, I looked for some specs on that boat. The only ones I found (I didn't spend long looking) said draught was 1.1 metres. But that was on a brokerage site, so I wasn't sure if it was correct, so I didn't mention it.

You however go ahead and quote any "facts" that suit your agenda. Which is 100% of the time to denigrate multihulls.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by canadian cat

In the Delos Baramundi video two things caught my eye. First the skipper of the cat had the auto pilot on. For sailing up wind the auto pilot is not as good as a human.

Hum... maybe he was just too lazy to bother? To some folks racing means constantly tweaking something, others enjoy a drink instead.


Our AP in windvane mode is (in my view) good enough even upwind.
There are two exceptions: first if I want to point as high as possible to avoid another tack. Second if we are intentionally overcanvassed, for example in small known wind acceleration zones.

[monte]

Originally Posted by rabbi

Hum... maybe he was just too lazy to bother? To some folks racing means constantly tweaking something, others enjoy a drink instead.





Our AP in windvane mode is (in my view) good enough even upwind.

There are two exceptions: first if I want to point as high as possible to avoid another tack. Second if we are intentionally overcanvassed, for example in small known wind acceleration zones.

Ours also works very well, maybe better than the skipper in some conditions. We also tend to take over in the same conditions, as well as in choppy/lumpy seas.

[four winds]

One can never be mistaken?

One either knows or they don't know?

How could one be mistaken? They could simply be wrong, maybe.

Only one who never thinks they are wrong would fail to .......

oh wait...... nevermind.

[canadian cat]

Originally Posted by rabbi

Hum... maybe he was just too lazy to bother? To some folks racing means constantly tweaking something, others enjoy a drink instead.


Our AP in windvane mode is (in my view) good enough even upwind.
There are two exceptions: first if I want to point as high as possible to avoid another tack. Second if we are intentionally overcanvassed, for example in small known wind acceleration zones.

I hear what you are saying about racing and relaxing and the video shows relaxing which is totally fine. From what I saw I would think the cat could be faster upwind than what was portrayed in the video. Also, you don't get to see what level of energy is being given on Delos. Is Delos being hand steered?

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by four winds

One can never be mistaken?

One either knows or they don't know?

How could one be mistaken? They could simply be wrong, maybe.

Only one who never thinks they are wrong would fail to .......

oh wait...... nevermind.

If you're going to answer a question with a statement of FACT, you should at least check that you facts are... factual. That's just good manners.

For instance if someone asked you how far from the Earth to the Sun, would you, if you didn't know, just admit you didn't know? (Or on a forum, simply not reply) Or would you just spout out any number that came to mind?


Or, if you're unsure, SAY you're unsure. Say, "I THINK it's ......"

To just invent your own number, and state it as FACT, is IMO dishonest.


As they say, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.

[four winds]

Earth to the Sun? That's easy, 93 megamiles. Don't have to look it up. Because I once delivered an Icarus SpaceCat 69 to Venus.

Was hard on the solar wind the whole trip. That thing would point like nobody's business. Never even started the twin outboard ion drives.

[Iaangus]

Originally Posted by travellerw

This thread is a great example of why the true cruisers either don't come here or have left recently!

Yes, Travelllerw I think you are correct. While there are some incredibly generous and knowledgable people that post here there is also a growing number of bitter and spiteful people here that think nothing of insulting a single person they don't know or a whole entire nation of people base on an incredibly narrow perspective.
I am afraid this is the natural cycle of a public discussion forum, eventually the knowledgable people quit posting and only the bitter and spiteful remain.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

So how can you be mistaken about the types of sails used to generate polar diagrams? You either know, or you don't know. If you don't know you should either admit that, or keep quiet. Not just invent your own "fact".

Polar diagrams can be generated with any type of sail configuration and many times they are. It was never about polars but about the values that are considered on the ORC international file regarding sailing upwind. Yes regarding that particular point I was mistaken about the sail configuration they use. Big deal

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

As an example - when you said the Barramundi draws 5'6" or 7'6" or whatever you said, I looked for some specs on that boat. The only ones I found (I didn't spend long looking) said draught was 1.1 metres. But that was on a brokerage site, so I wasn't sure if it was correct, so I didn't mention it.
You however go ahead and quote any "facts" that suit your agenda. Which is 100% of the time to denigrate multihulls.

I did not look to any advertise to get that number but to Lerouge site where the information is correct. As I had explained several times it was a mistake. If you look at the add regarding the Barramundi 470 you will see that the number I quoted as draft was the one from the headroom, 6'7".
Brokerage

Regarding denigrate multihulls only on your mind. I have said repeatedly that I like performance boats and I like performance monohulls and performance multihulls, among other types of boats. It is you that consider that somebody that disagree with you, particularly in what regards the performance of a cat while cruising, is denigrating cats.

And that is particularly funny on this case since the owner of the Barramundi 470, that obviously love his boat, is denigrating cats on that interview since he says that a cat while cruising is as fast as a monohull and he explains why and the reason is the one that I had ventured as an hypothesis regarding the similar performance of cats and monohulls on the ARC.

I would not even would go so far and I think that the Barramundi 470 will be faster than the Amel (while cruising) on most conditions but not faster than a performance monohull and I believe it was what the Barramundi owner was trying to say. He knows about the comparative performance since he had owned previously performance monohulls...and don't discard the possibility of having them again in the future.

Anyway, generalizations like that don't make much sense since it all depends on the performance of the multihull and monohull in question since both, even if considered as performance or fast cruisers, can have very different performances (monohulls and Multihulls alike).

[44'cruisingcat]

I think I'll just put your apparent inability to understand what I've said down to English clearly not being your first language.


For the record - I haven't said the Barramundi would or should be faster than any given monohull.


All I've said is that if under full sail in 15 knots TWS and 60' TWA, it can only manage < 9 knots, it is NOT a "Really fast catamaran", as you said it was.


It's not particularly slow either, but certainly not REALLY fast.