Prout 31 upwind performance

[jvolpehoo]

I had a most frustrating experience on the Chesapeake Bay yesterday trying to beat my way north into 15 knot winds, against a tide. After several hours of zig zagging and winding up nearly where I started I gave up and returned to Rock Hall.
Couldn't get my Prout 31 to go any closer than 50 degrees off the wind and didn't see 4 knots of speed until falling off to near beam reach.

tried this with and without the staysail and had all the tell tails sweeping back nicely.

So, anybody got any trim "pointers?"

Can the boat be modified with the addition of a screecher or the like?

[44'cruisingcat]

A screecher isn't really an upwind sail.

What kind of condition are your working sails in?

[jvolpehoo]

thanks,
the 100% genoa is new, on the Prouts with aft mast the furling genoa is the main power. the mainsail is very small and as I understand it, mostly to balance the boat. the stay sail and main are surely not the best shape and Prouts apparently have this reputation for poor upwind performance. Im sure new main and stay sail would help the problem.

If the tell tails are flying well does that necessarily mean that she's trimmed as best as possible?

[Jeannius]

I've only sailed once on the Chesapeake so am by no means an expert, however, even on a much more capable upwind cat than yours, I soon learnt not to try and go upwind and against the tide. From what I remember (it was a few years ago) I waited until the tide was in my favour or at least slack water before heading upwind.

[mikedefieslife]

Par for the course isn't it? My Prout 35 doesn't go more than 60 degrees upwind and the Quest is supposed to be a better sailer.

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

Par for the course isn't it? My Prout 35 doesn't go more than 60 degrees upwind and the Quest is supposed to be a better sailer.

When you quote "degrees upwind", I assume it's apparent wind angle (AWA) and not true wind angle (TWA)?

[mikedefieslife]

Yes AWA. It really makes tacking upwind a bit pointless as the OP unfortunately found out.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

Yes AWA. It really makes tacking upwind a bit pointless as the OP unfortunately found out.

AWA? That is basically a beam reach true wind. She has low aspect and grossly undersized keels and rudders, a center pod that is dragging, and is probably overweight. If she were my boat I'd look at sheeting angles and I would be considering keel modifications, but this lack of pointing and slow speed is well known, so I didn't buy one.

Sail Delmarva: Sheeting Angle and Keels

(For PDQ 32 before keel modifications. She did better after I modified the keels.)




http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...s-than-90.html

And then there is always the matter of learning to eak the best out of the LAR keels you have. It is different than sailing a mono with a deep keel.

Sail Delmarva: Driving to Windward...

Use the engine.

[akprb]

Originally Posted by thinwater

AWA? That is basically a beam reach true wind. She has low aspect and grossly undersized keels and rudders, a center pod that is dragging, and is probably overweight. If she were my boat I'd look at sheeting angles and I would be considering keel modifications, but this lack of pointing and slow speed is well known, so I didn't buy one.

Sail Delmarva: Sheeting Angle and Keels

(For PDQ 32 before keel modifications. She did better after I modified the keels.)




http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...s-than-90.html

And then there is always the matter of learning to eak the best out of the LAR keels you have. It is different than sailing a mono with a deep keel.

Sail Delmarva: Driving to Windward...

Use the engine.

Still wiping up the coffee from the good laugh!

Upwind performance in a 31’ Prout :-) That’s funny.

Thinwater’s last line is the best advice and will save you thousands. Either motor or buy a J30.

Performance upwind ain’t her cup of tea or most cats for that matter. (That will fire up the masses)

[onavegador]

As Mike wrote do not try to sail up wind against the tide. Much better if you wait until the tide is with you.

My experience is, do not point so much until the cat loose speed, prefer to have speed enough so you have less windage. A GPS will help you to find out what is the best course and speed made good towards your goal.
I also find out that my cat it was better with more wind, about 20 knots true wind or even more.
Good luck
James

[danielamartindm]

Originally Posted by akprb

Still wiping up the coffee from the good laugh!

Upwind performance in a 31’ Prout :-) That’s funny.

Thinwater’s last line is the best advice and will save you thousands. Either motor or buy a J30.

Performance upwind ain’t her cup of tea or most cats for that matter. (That will fire up the masses)

I think it's safe to say that no one buys a cat for upwind performance. I don't enjoy beating my brains out anyway, and if I absolutely have to get to a given destination with the wind on my bow, I either wait for the wind to change or use the engines. When you can't sail very close to the wind, tacking results in a lot of extra miles, and time.

[Excalibur5]

In my Snowgoose 37, in 15 knots, I can get up to about 45-50 degrees off the wind before the sails start losing their pull. I will see about 4 knots of boat speed there. Fall off to about 55 degrees and I’m doing around 6 knots. On a beam reach I get near 7.

I also find she really likes a bit more wind, around 18 or so to really power up due to the low aspect rig.

Bottom line is don’t bother trying to sail upwind against the current, it just isn’t what these boats are built for. Fall off a bit and they become fun though.

[Paul L]

Measuring upwind performance when you have a negative current flow is pretty meaningless. The best performing race boats will probably be the ones with the best tactician to play the counter and slack currents.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by akprb

Still wiping up the coffee from the good laugh!

Upwind performance in a 31’ Prout :-) That’s funny.

Thinwater’s last line is the best advice and will save you thousands. Either motor or buy a J30.

Performance upwind ain’t her cup of tea or most cats for that matter. (That will fire up the masses)

Yeah.


I have a Corsair trimaran now. A big deep daggerboard makes a big difference up-wind! LAR cats are not up-wind machines. They are built for a broad reach where they are very comfortable.

[smj]

Originally Posted by danielamartindm

I think it's safe to say that no one buys a cat for upwind performance. I don't enjoy beating my brains out anyway, and if I absolutely have to get to a given destination with the wind on my bow, I either wait for the wind to change or use the engines. When you can't sail very close to the wind, tacking results in a lot of extra miles, and time.

A well designed daggerboard cat will have no problem sailing upwind.