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Old 28-12-2017, 17:45   #1006
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Originally Posted by BigBeakie View Post
So glad to someone else facing the same silly arguements.

Look, let's summarise the situation. EP can produce almost the same, that is ALMOST, not the SAME, boatspeed as diesels that are about 3 times the size. The reason the diesels need to much bigger is that they are much more inefficient than electric.

The water resistance curve tells the whole story. It is exponential. The old adage that to double your speed in water you need to overcome the square of the resistance and to do that you need to cube the power required, tells the whole story.

I have come to the conclusion that you can reasonably expect to get "about" one knot less top speed with EP that is "about" one third the size of diesels that give you that one extra knot. To me, that is acceptable.

The real benefit of EP is that you can cruise at nice cruising speeds for MUCH less power from the batteries than trying to hoon around at slightly faster speeds.

End of story. I'll now get onto something more productive, like outfitting a boat.
I'm looking forward to your boat being completed to see what your system is capable of. Another installation to provide some real world numbers will be very welcome.

Do you have an estimate for a launch date yet?
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Old 28-12-2017, 17:56   #1007
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Originally Posted by tp12 View Post
I'm looking forward to your boat being completed to see what your system is capable of. Another installation to provide some real world numbers will be very welcome.

Do you have an estimate for a launch date yet?
There are actually several Oceanvolt projects on the go at the moment besides ours, so we will certainly gain experience quickly. One thing I did not convey from my interview with Kato's owner was the unbridled enthusiasm he has now for the benefits of the OV system. He stresses the far superior manoevering ability, the advantages of what you can do motor-sailing on electric, the torque in pulling in your anchor to set it, the lack of diesel fumes in the cockpit ( that's a biggie for us, both the health and yuck factor), and of course the quietness. Oh, and the joys of having an electric boat re house amenities....

tp, I have given up trying to estimate the launch date. We have had some materials supply issues in Thailand that have delayed things, so I'm saying June at this point, but......

Your welcome to come onboard for a ride anytime when we get back to Oz.
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Old 28-12-2017, 18:03   #1008
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Originally Posted by BigBeakie View Post
There are actually several Oceanvolt projects on the go at the moment besides ours, so we will certainly gain experience quickly. One thing I did not convey from my interview with Kato's owner was the unbridled enthusiasm he has now for the benefits of the OV system. He stresses the far superior manoevering ability, the advantages of what you can do motor-sailing on electric, the torque in pulling in your anchor to set it, the lack of diesel fumes in the cockpit ( that's a biggie for us, both the health and yuck factor), and of course the quietness. Oh, and the joys of having an electric boat re house amenities....

tp, I have given up trying to estimate the launch date. We have had some materials supply issues in Thailand that have delayed things, so I'm saying June at this point, but......

Your welcome to come onboard for a ride anytime when we get back to Oz.
Fair enough re: launch, these things happen. Fingers crossed you don't get more delays.

Thank you very much for the offer. That's one I'll be sure to take up; I'm keen to see the freeflow as well as the EV installation. Will you be doing a 'delivery' back to Aus when launched or starting the cruise from there?
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Old 28-12-2017, 18:07   #1009
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Originally Posted by BigBeakie View Post
Now that we have settled the regen issue, except to the liking of some of our fine "engineers" , I'll open another can of worms that you engineers will just love!

I also had the chance to sit down at the Boat Works with the owner of Kato, who is a fairly capable (intentional understatement) multihull sailor, ex racing car driver and mechanic ( so he knows about torque & power & engine efficiency, OK?) and talked to him in some detail about his Oceanvolt experience and thoughts.

I wanted to focus on 1) his impressions using EP under adverse conditions, and 2) his impression of EP vs diesel performance.

Now, I know you guys are not gunna want to hear this, but here goes.

1) He has been cruising for a full 3 months up and down the Australia East coast, giving the Oceanvolt system on Kato "a thrashing". He has motored into some heavy winds i.e. 30 kts plus during that time. He has no reservations about the SD15's at all to perform under adverseconditions, and his comment on the naysayers, not mine, was "they just don't know what they are talking about. Simple." He says the SD15kW are easily the equivalent of the performance of 50HP (37kW) diesels in the tough stuff. This was very reassuring to my wife and I, as so much hoohaw has been made by some on this forum to the contrary. The reason he has bow thrusters in NOT because he has EP, but because docking a 66' lightweight cat in high winds is a major challenge regardless of what engines/motors you have. OK?

As to the comparison diesel vs electric re performance, here is the context of his opinion. His previous boat was a 60 foot Schionning, very similar to Kato, a bit heavier since Kato is carbon, but as to loaded displacement, very similar. That boat had twin 75HP (56kW) Yanmar saildrives. He tested the motoring performance for that boat exactly the same as he did for Kato, in the same rivers at both Coomera and Noosa Heads. OK? he's a race car driver and he likes to go pretty much as fast as he can, so performance matters to him. OK? At WOT for the Yanmars with light displacement he got 11.3 knots average over up river down river flat calm conditions. He cruised with the Yanmars on one engine 1850rpm and got 7.5 knots. So, a quick boat, yes?

Are you sitting down? Have you guys got your slide rules ready?

On Kato with the SD15 and Gori props, he got 10 knots at max power under exactly same conditions. Yes, that is correct. With 2 x 15kW electrics he got 1.3 knots less top speed than 2 x 56kW Yanmar diesels at WOT.

He says he could feel he was under prop'd and he changed the Gori's to a bigger pitch, and now he gets 11 knots at full power. Which is very close, you will notice, to the best he got from his Yanmars. So, not to put too fine a point on it, but the 15kW Oceanvolts are giving very close to the same performance as diesels over 3 times the power capacity. I told you you wouldn't like it.

For cruising on the 11kW FP ADT-DC genset, at 8.4kW from the genset, he can motor nonstop at 7 knots.

Now, this is a credible report by a knowledgeable and experienced cruiser. If you want to call this fellow a liar, I dare you to do it to his face. If you do, I wanna be there

I personally place much more credibility on this empirical data and his credibility, than Cruising Forum "engineers" howling about broken Laws of Physics, and a HP is a HP, and other such comments.

As promised, when we get launched with our Oceanvolt Servoprop system, I will also do testing, and publish the data, warts and all.

Peace be with you
Interesting. People at the boat works (not Tony, he wasn't there) told me Kato 1 had motored at over 15 knots during sea trials.
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Old 29-12-2017, 00:39   #1010
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

I also had a chat with Tony about his electric motors and came away with a completely different impression to that given by Rob. Sure Tony is happy with his boat but when the discussion came down to hard data he was more pragmatic, as you would expect from a ex racing driver.

Strange how that works. I think that is why in a general sense it is not wise to trust anecdotal evidence, but rather hard evidence that is peer reviewed by independent authorities. Two people can have conversations on the same subject and come away with completely different impression based on their biases. And yes I admit I am biased based on a background in engineering and physics.

Personally, I am sick of the discussion. At the end of the day we all put down our money and we all get what we get. I have yet to see an unhappy owner who has spent a million plus on a boat, and thus I will guarantee that Rob will be happy with his boat no matter how it performs and he will describe in great detail how it performs.

However, until such time as an EP boat is the subject of a detailed and independent study that is peer reviewed by experts any claims will remain in the never never.
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Old 29-12-2017, 02:54   #1011
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

What is indisputable is the video showing the results. Unless anyone thinks the instruments were deliberately miscalibrated?

Let's be clear, we're now using anecdotal evidence to refute anecdotal evidence. The reality is Tony is very unlikely to have made both statements.

That's the only comment I'll make... I'm sure he would happily clarify
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Old 29-12-2017, 03:44   #1012
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Originally Posted by cwjohm View Post
from a ex racing driver..
He is still racing Chris. And he is still quick. I am still racing as well, and I am still slow. :-)
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Old 29-12-2017, 04:33   #1013
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Originally Posted by cwjohm View Post
I also had a chat with Tony about his electric motors and came away with a completely different impression to that given by Rob. Sure Tony is happy with his boat but when the discussion came down to hard data he was more pragmatic, as you would expect from a ex racing driver.

Strange how that works. I think that is why in a general sense it is not wise to trust anecdotal evidence, but rather hard evidence that is peer reviewed by independent authorities. Two people can have conversations on the same subject and come away with completely different impression based on their biases. And yes I admit I am biased based on a background in engineering and physics.

Personally, I am sick of the discussion. At the end of the day we all put down our money and we all get what we get. I have yet to see an unhappy owner who has spent a million plus on a boat, and thus I will guarantee that Rob will be happy with his boat no matter how it performs and he will describe in great detail how it performs.

However, until such time as an EP boat is the subject of a detailed and independent study that is peer reviewed by experts any claims will remain in the never never.
Well this is facinating Chris, I must say. I do understand that one's expectations and viewpoint can colour how one can recall a conversation. But I must say that your implication that Tony is anything but delighted with the Oceanvolt system, I find hard to comprehend. Can you be more specific?

What did he say to you that indicated that?, I'd be really interested to hear. Yes, it took 2 goes to get the right prop, and yes they had to replace a throttle control, I believe, but do you really feel he is NOT 100% satisfied with how the system has performed? And if so, why?

Because we talked about the skepticism about EP, and I referred to your (obliquely, not by name) previous comments about the poor performance of EP in adverse conditions and how "a bow thruster is an absolute necessity" - your words, (presumably because the OV system would not have enough grunt)?

There were 2 other people present at the meeting with Tony, and to be frank, their recollection does not align with your portrayal of his circumspect attitude to his OV system. They heard what I heard, that he is a big supporter.

It's possible, I suppose that he related two different flavours of his experience with OV in the two conversations. But that doesn't sound like Tony to me, he's a pretty straight shooter.

Maybe one day he'll publish his thoughts in an article on the matter and resolve the apparent discrepancy. But as I said, Annie and I left the meeting with VERY positive expectations of what we can expect from our OV system, based on Tony's enthusiasm and encouragement. If Tony thought for an instant he had made a mistake and the OV system was not up to his demands, and he is demanding, he would just "rip it out", as you have put it in the past, and put diesels in. I think you'll find that isn't going to happen.

As to your idea that only a peer reviewed, double blind cross over engineering evaluation of the OV capabilities is of any value, who better to carry out such an exercise than yourself?
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Old 29-12-2017, 12:09   #1014
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

Rob, you are prosecuting your normal line of argument of redirection from the fundamental question in point.

At did not say that Tony was not delighted with the system. I did not say that he is not a big supporter of EP. I did not say that he was in any way circumspect about the performance of the boat. I am not attempting to disprove anything about Kato 2. This is a red herring and a distraction to the question in point.

You see it all depends on how you phrase the question. I would venture to say the vast majority of sailors are in favour of EP. It is simply a matter of what amount of power is necessary to drive the boat in question. This is no different really to a discussion of the necessary size of diesel required to fitout a boat. In the case of a Helia a 55HP boat is a necessity in my opinion. Others may believe that a 30HP will do the job. That is an argument of finances vs performance. I do believe that a 30HP diesel on the Helia would lead to disappointment but on 44cs boat for instance performance would be quite adequate.

I am on record as saying that when Oceanvolt produce an affordable 30Kw electric motor and that can be coupled with a 20KVA generator then EP will become commonplace in production boats.

So for me clearly the question is not about the viability of EP. It is about what the quantum of Kw are necessary to make a production boat viable and safe.

To me this boils the question down to of the simple matter of what is the equivalent diesel HP to a 15KW Oceanvolt motor.

In my view you have taken Tony's comments and extrapolated them using your own reasoning to indicate that the performance on a 66ft rocketship Kato 2 as compared to Kato 1 indicates that the 15KW OV motor is nearly equivalent to a 75HP motor and therefore roughly equivalent to a 55HP diesel motor.

Just so we clearly understand. You are saying that 15KW of electric power will generate the same performance as 30KW of diesel power. Now, in order for me to accept this I have to throw out all of my training of physics as the fundamental laws of thermodynamics are now void. I am prepared to keep an open mind on this but strong claims require strong evidence.

My questions to Tony were very different to yours. I was interested in the actual technical performance between the OV15 and the 75HP diesels, and on this Tony was more circumspect. After all Kato 1 and Kato 2 are very different boats. I would query your description of Kato 1 performance under motor, as this was not what Tony related to me, and also the new owner of Kato 2 tells a different story to that you relate and more akin to that which 44C described, and the comparative speed performance and the reduced thrust needed in Kato 2 indicate to me that there is a strong argument that the 75HP diesels produce substantially more thrust than the 15Kw OV.

I also queried Tony as to whether he would be happy to manouver the boat in close quarters without the bowthrusters and the answer was an unequivocal "NO".

However, the fundamental question remains, as to how much information you can draw from the performance of Kato 2, as against Kato 1, in regard to the argument that Kw for Kw, EP generates twice the thrust of diesel. Respectfully, I do not believe this is the strong evidence that you maintain which proves the assertion.

You have been determined to fit out your boat with EP for years now and that determination has never wavered. The question is not the viability of EP, although you often tend to push the discussion in that direction. In fact, the question is "what is the required amount of EP power that is needed for your boat". Your view is that 15KW OV motors will generate a reasonable performance for your boat. Many others (including me) hold the view that it is not.

As I pointed out in my last post the only view that matters in this regard is yours and you will surely be happy with the boat no matter what the outcome.

What worries me (and others) is that other potential boat owners, as for instance the initial OP of this thread, will be persuaded by your strong and persistent line of argument, based on no direct evidence, to this view that 15KW is sufficient to power a production boat in a reasonable and safe manner.
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Old 29-12-2017, 13:06   #1015
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Originally Posted by BigBeakie View Post
For cruising on the 11kW FP ADT-DC genset, at 8.4kW from the genset, he can motor nonstop at 7 knots.
I think your report about Kato is really interesting and astonishing.
We should compare this with the hull resistance data (drag curve) from the naval architect (is this available?). From my experience the typical data for a performance cat of this size shows, that for 7 knots (significantly) more shaft power is needed.

Another aspect I like to bring into the discussion is the safety margin for windage: From my experience power needed to overcome 20-30 kts of wind is much more than the power needed to just move the hull through the water at a reasonable speed.
I have data for 51 ft trimaran from a well known Trimaran builder showing that fighting against wind of 30 kts will require additional shaft power of 33 kW. At least at this point I very much doubt that quite small electric motor can cope with that. So more electric motor power is not a bad idea when thinking about a dragging anchor at night.
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Old 29-12-2017, 13:28   #1016
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

It still baffles me why they don't use electric motors to power generators....
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Old 29-12-2017, 17:06   #1017
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Originally Posted by cwjohm View Post
Rob, you are prosecuting your normal line of argument of redirection from the fundamental question in point.

At did not say that Tony was not delighted with the system. I did not say that he is not a big supporter of EP. I did not say that he was in any way circumspect about the performance of the boat. I am not attempting to disprove anything about Kato 2. This is a red herring and a distraction to the question in point.

You see it all depends on how you phrase the question. I would venture to say the vast majority of sailors are in favour of EP. It is simply a matter of what amount of power is necessary to drive the boat in question. This is no different really to a discussion of the necessary size of diesel required to fitout a boat. In the case of a Helia a 55HP boat is a necessity in my opinion. Others may believe that a 30HP will do the job. That is an argument of finances vs performance. I do believe that a 30HP diesel on the Helia would lead to disappointment but on 44cs boat for instance performance would be quite adequate.

I am on record as saying that when Oceanvolt produce an affordable 30Kw electric motor and that can be coupled with a 20KVA generator then EP will become commonplace in production boats.

So for me clearly the question is not about the viability of EP. It is about what the quantum of Kw are necessary to make a production boat viable and safe.

To me this boils the question down to of the simple matter of what is the equivalent diesel HP to a 15KW Oceanvolt motor.

In my view you have taken Tony's comments and extrapolated them using your own reasoning to indicate that the performance on a 66ft rocketship Kato 2 as compared to Kato 1 indicates that the 15KW OV motor is nearly equivalent to a 75HP motor and therefore roughly equivalent to a 55HP diesel motor.

Just so we clearly understand. You are saying that 15KW of electric power will generate the same performance as 30KW of diesel power. Now, in order for me to accept this I have to throw out all of my training of physics as the fundamental laws of thermodynamics are now void. I am prepared to keep an open mind on this but strong claims require strong evidence.

My questions to Tony were very different to yours. I was interested in the actual technical performance between the OV15 and the 75HP diesels, and on this Tony was more circumspect. After all Kato 1 and Kato 2 are very different boats. I would query your description of Kato 1 performance under motor, as this was not what Tony related to me, and also the new owner of Kato 2 tells a different story to that you relate and more akin to that which 44C described, and the comparative speed performance and the reduced thrust needed in Kato 2 indicate to me that there is a strong argument that the 75HP diesels produce substantially more thrust than the 15Kw OV.

I also queried Tony as to whether he would be happy to manouver the boat in close quarters without the bowthrusters and the answer was an unequivocal "NO".

However, the fundamental question remains, as to how much information you can draw from the performance of Kato 2, as against Kato 1, in regard to the argument that Kw for Kw, EP generates twice the thrust of diesel. Respectfully, I do not believe this is the strong evidence that you maintain which proves the assertion.

You have been determined to fit out your boat with EP for years now and that determination has never wavered. The question is not the viability of EP, although you often tend to push the discussion in that direction. In fact, the question is "what is the required amount of EP power that is needed for your boat". Your view is that 15KW OV motors will generate a reasonable performance for your boat. Many others (including me) hold the view that it is not.

As I pointed out in my last post the only view that matters in this regard is yours and you will surely be happy with the boat no matter what the outcome.

What worries me (and others) is that other potential boat owners, as for instance the initial OP of this thread, will be persuaded by your strong and persistent line of argument, based on no direct evidence, to this view that 15KW is sufficient to power a production boat in a reasonable and safe manner.
OK, that is a great post Chris, and explains more clearly, at least for me, where you are coming from and what you were focusing on in your conversation with Tony. Thanks for that. It makes perfect sense.

You are quite correct to point out that the sizing of an EP system MUST consider the specifics of the boat it is intended to power AND the expected conditions i.e wind, current, lees shore dangers, etc. Quite correct. Annie and I have sought information on this issue from as wide and large a pool of experience as we could. We perhaps have the advantage of having spoken to several Oceanvolt users ( OV have about 200 systems in operation) everywhere from Europe to Mauritius to US about their experience. One French fellow sails the Bay of Biscay on SD15's, and it gets very windy there, very frequently. His cat is medium windage and he rates the SD15 as 50HP equivalent, which is exactly what Tony said to us re Kato. The Mauritious boys have SD10kW and they rate it as functionally equivalent to 30HP diesels. So there is starting to line up some user experience from people who have had several diesel powered cruising boats prior to going OV, and that is what we paid attention to in making our choice. Once the Servoprop became available with it's extra propulsive power, it became an easier decision, both because of the extra 25% added thrust and the amazing regen numbers. The Servoprp SD15 becomes effectively a 20kW solution with added benefits.

Will it be enough? I promise to let you know, and you are always welcome on our boat anytime, anywhere.

By the way, I do understand your system sizing concerns and why you like the 30Kw size, and OV now have the shaft drive AXC motors that can be stacked together to give multiples of 10kW, up to 40kW. We were going to get the 20kW AXC, but the Servoprop tipped the balance because of the regen, for us. Add in the bulletproof 16kW DC Genset from Eniquest which is amazing, and this is now a viable EP solution that Oceanvolt have put together. The ENTIRE system has a worldwide 5 year guarantee from OV with sophisticated remote diagnostics and support.

You have to admit, it is a far cry from the cobbled together EP "solutions" that you have heard about and reported on previously, that have inadequate performance and reliability.
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Old 29-12-2017, 18:19   #1018
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

Yes, of course, the technology and commercialisation of the technology is moving in leaps and bounds.

I have no doubt that in 5-10 years most production boats will be equipped with EP. However, as an early adopter you can pay a price penalty. I would not buy a Tesla when they first came to Australia, but now that a good second hand one with low Km is now a third of the price I am sorely tempted.

In regard to boats I believe the question of EP is confused. It is not necessarily just a matter of EP technology moving on but also a matter of minimising the friction imposed by the boat design. In other words I do not think that Tony is primarily ecstatic that he has EP, but moreso that he and Julien have designed and manufactured a boat where a minimal EP system can do the job. This is indeed an achievement to be proud of.

Given that I am now looking as a long term plan to acquire a similar sort of boat, given my modest means as compared to Tony, but reasonable means nonetheless, it is probably certain that I will equip it with EP. By that time as you say OV will probably have a more powerful solution available at a price that, whilst not necessarily reasonable, one could accept.

What this really comes down to in this case is your assessment of the characteristics of the boat you are building. As I understand it this boat will vary in several important ways from the one boat now in existence, so this is in many ways an experiment, and all power to you for taking the risk.

To me the important takeaway here is that you, and probably me in the long term, have a plan to build/acquire a boat that by its very nature will allow the use of EP. To extrapolate this to saying that a production boat can be safely equipped with 15KW is not reasonable at this time, but it will become so at some time in the future when the technology has moved to such a point that production boat builders analyse the benefits for their customers and customer assess the benefits of the financial cost of equipping EP. I see that as around 5-10 years away, but you no doubt see it as much sooner.

As a closing statement I can only say that when I bought my first boat I was certain that I had researched all of the issues and canvassed all of those sailing similar boats. The boat was sold 18 months later. When I bought my second boat I was certain that I had researched all of the issues and canvassed all of those sailing similar boats. The boat was sold 2 years later. When I bought my third boat I was certain that I had researched all of the issues and canvassed all of those sailing similar boats. The boat was sold 2 years later. Now I am looking for my fourth boat and am researching all of the issues and cavassing all of those sailing similar boats.

All of these research efforts get thrown out the door when one either encounters subsequent real world sailing challenges, starts loading up the boat and performance deteriorates markedly, gets a lot of visitors on the boat which stresses resources to the max, damages the boat when manouvering in close quarters, or when sailing in company the other guy is sitting drinking his beer at the next anchorage and says "what kept you". Of course very few of us have the means and skills to compete with Tony and Kato, but on the other hand, many of us tend to make the obvious comparisons and want to be in the "reasonable performance" category - not all of us by any means (before I get bombarded by those cruisers who could not care less). The real question Rob is are you happy to accept the possibility that your boat performance may not be to your liking and thus through necessity you are in the latter group. I would suspect that whilst you may think so, your personality would dictate otherwise, but of course time dictates all in this regard.
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Old 29-12-2017, 19:55   #1019
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Originally Posted by cwjohm View Post
Yes, of course, the technology and commercialisation of the technology is moving in leaps and bounds.

I have no doubt that in 5-10 years most production boats will be equipped with EP. However, as an early adopter you can pay a price penalty. I would not buy a Tesla when they first came to Australia, but now that a good second hand one with low Km is now a third of the price I am sorely tempted.

In regard to boats I believe the question of EP is confused. It is not necessarily just a matter of EP technology moving on but also a matter of minimising the friction imposed by the boat design. In other words I do not think that Tony is primarily ecstatic that he has EP, but moreso that he and Julien have designed and manufactured a boat where a minimal EP system can do the job. This is indeed an achievement to be proud of.

Given that I am now looking as a long term plan to acquire a similar sort of boat, given my modest means as compared to Tony, but reasonable means nonetheless, it is probably certain that I will equip it with EP. By that time as you say OV will probably have a more powerful solution available at a price that, whilst not necessarily reasonable, one could accept.

What this really comes down to in this case is your assessment of the characteristics of the boat you are building. As I understand it this boat will vary in several important ways from the one boat now in existence, so this is in many ways an experiment, and all power to you for taking the risk.

To me the important takeaway here is that you, and probably me in the long term, have a plan to build/acquire a boat that by its very nature will allow the use of EP. To extrapolate this to saying that a production boat can be safely equipped with 15KW is not reasonable at this time, but it will become so at some time in the future when the technology has moved to such a point that production boat builders analyse the benefits for their customers and customer assess the benefits of the financial cost of equipping EP. I see that as around 5-10 years away, but you no doubt see it as much sooner.

As a closing statement I can only say that when I bought my first boat I was certain that I had researched all of the issues and canvassed all of those sailing similar boats. The boat was sold 18 months later. When I bought my second boat I was certain that I had researched all of the issues and canvassed all of those sailing similar boats. The boat was sold 2 years later. When I bought my third boat I was certain that I had researched all of the issues and canvassed all of those sailing similar boats. The boat was sold 2 years later. Now I am looking for my fourth boat and am researching all of the issues and cavassing all of those sailing similar boats.

All of these research efforts get thrown out the door when one either encounters subsequent real world sailing challenges, starts loading up the boat and performance deteriorates markedly, gets a lot of visitors on the boat which stresses resources to the max, damages the boat when manouvering in close quarters, or when sailing in company the other guy is sitting drinking his beer at the next anchorage and says "what kept you". Of course very few of us have the means and skills to compete with Tony and Kato, but on the other hand, many of us tend to make the obvious comparisons and want to be in the "reasonable performance" category - not all of us by any means (before I get bombarded by those cruisers who could not care less). The real question Rob is are you happy to accept the possibility that your boat performance may not be to your liking and thus through necessity you are in the latter group. I would suspect that whilst you may think so, your personality would dictate otherwise, but of course time dictates all in this regard.
Some good points made. I think we have arrived at different conclusions regarding the readiness of EP, such as what Oceanvolt are offering right now, to be a viable cruising propulsion option.

From my research, I think the OV systems are seriously robust and reliable. I did not strike one owner who had systems failure, and I asked them if they knew anyone who had any trouble, all reported no issues. The more I learn about other offerings out there, the more this is confirmed to me.

Reliability was our #1 concern in the beginning of this idea, then it changed to "Will it provide enough power in adverse conditions, and emergency type situations like escaping a lee shore anchorage in a big blow. We did the wind resistance study for the Freeflow 50 and OV helped us with their modelling understand what forces were involved and the power required. We are confident we will be able to motor into 40 knot wind and pick up the anchor, to "get outta there".

So, it's possible we will learn something after launch and cruising for awhile, as you point out, that is a deficiency that is unanticipated and unacceptable. Anything is possible. But we have tried to eliminate that possibility in 2 ways: one is to think through our priorities and cruising style, destinations and requirements thereof. Flowing from that is a helluva lot of research on all aspects of equipment, seamanship, and boat construction/materials. This has been all consuming but since retiring, it's been very enjoyable and stimulating. The second thing we have done is ask lots of questions of as many experienced cruisers as we can. From that feedback, we often go back and re-research something and perhaps come to a different conclusion about something.

We believe we have chosen the FF50 as the best design for us ( the balance between performance and "comfort"), and have in fact participated in the design process from the beginning, as several of the features of the boat are our ideas that have been through the crucible of critique and examination, and come out the other side as worthwhile ideas. EP is only one of those ideas.There are several others that we think are pretty good. They will be communicated after launch, and the sea trials will show whether we have been inspired or idiots.
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Old 29-12-2017, 20:08   #1020
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Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW
Boat: FreeFlow 50 cat
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

Data is good. Here is more data for those that are interested....Note she sails (mysteriously) well above "hull speed" of 10.8 knots continuously, this is NOT surfing!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9h..._as=subscriber

A summary graph of Kato regeneration with the Oceanvolt SD15 under sail during sea trials. No "engineer" was harmed during the filming of these results

The above graph is the "original" regen from Oceanvolt using Gori or Flexofold feather props. This is what can be expected from their new Servoprop regen solution using variable pitch prop and new smarts. Notice the dramatic improvement in the regen figures vs speed!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Kato Hydro-Generation.pdf (65.7 KB, 66 views)
File Type: pdf ServoProp2-2017.pdf (217.9 KB, 64 views)
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