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Old 13-11-2019, 07:07   #16
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Re: New outremer model coming

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I started out in the Outremer camp myself, having owned high end sports cars over the years, the idea of sailing “slow” didn’t seem appealing to me. I test sailed the 51 for a day, simply awesome. Then decided it would be a good idea to go charter a few boats and talk to real cruisers before writing a million dollar check.



The real life experience of being on the water for weeks at a time and having a wife to keep happy makes the Outremer a no go. I could absolutely see if you were singlehanding or just day sailing, but to live aboard it would be miserable compared to the other options out there. I get the going fast aspect, but other than the couple of days a year you might save doing long passages for us wouldn’t be worth the sacrifice you’d pay the other 360 days a year.



There is so much more to sailing than being able to do 18 knots in 20 knots of wind, getting there can be the fun part. My last sail a couple weeks ago from Tahaa to bora bora took about 6 hours, it was glorious, not sure I would have wanted it to be only 5 hours.



The clincher was speaking with some world arc people and hearing how a 5X owner was miserable living aboard was enough for us to know that our boat will be more of a balance between comfort and performance. dont get me wrong Outremer is a gorgeous boat of the highest quality, but it’s not for everyone.


If you were to rank catamarans (of roughly same size) beginning with an Outremer by gradually dialing down performance, and dialing up livability while trying to maintain build quality, what would your order of brands be? (I understand build quality of some production brands doesn’t make them last a long time)

Where would a Catana 471 figure on that list?

I’m trying to get more educated on what different brands offer.

Thank you
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Old 14-11-2019, 12:06   #17
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Re: New outremer model coming

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Different boats for different people, but I can’t get excited about full time cruising on an Outremer when the galley on the 5x can’t compete against an entry level Leopard 40, Astrea 42 or Lagoon 42. From the brief interior shot you showed this boat is no different. I’m sure it will go hell, though.

Compared to the minimal accommodations on my 38' Cross trimaran, I could live a like a freaking king on an Outremer - even the older models. The one thing I'd be concerned about with the cats you mentioned is bridge deck clearance. If you check out the Gone with the Wynn's videos on Youtube, you can often hear the bridgedeck pounding which has to be exhausting on long passages.
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Old 15-11-2019, 04:16   #18
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Re: New outremer model coming

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Compared to the minimal accommodations on my 38' Cross trimaran, I could live a like a freaking king on an Outremer - even the older models. The one thing I'd be concerned about with the cats you mentioned is bridge deck clearance. If you check out the Gone with the Wynn's videos on Youtube, you can often hear the bridgedeck pounding which has to be exhausting on long passages.

If I recall the Wynns have a an older Leopard 43, which indeed had lower bridge deck clearance. They were last produced about 14 years ago, and I believe the clearance was improved after that.


Regardless, most cats certainly have more space than any of our trimarans had, including our 40'!
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Old 15-11-2019, 04:31   #19
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Re: New outremer model coming

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Factor, given that you are a Seawind dealer, are you suggesting that a Seawind 1600 can't sail?
hell no. Goes very well. Proper boat with daggers. Not as quick as O51. But better than most.
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Old 15-11-2019, 07:05   #20
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Re: New outremer model coming

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If I recall the Wynns have a an older Leopard 43, which indeed had lower bridge deck clearance. They were last produced about 14 years ago, and I believe the clearance was improved after that.
I don't follow them but I did just check and it is a 2005 L43 as Lee said. All the Outies had way more bridgedeck clearance than the older Leopards. In theory they should slam/pound less. Also faster.
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Old 15-11-2019, 07:39   #21
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Re: New outremer model coming

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......... Also faster.

MUCH!
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Old 15-11-2019, 10:24   #22
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Re: New outremer model coming

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The real life experience of being on the water for weeks at a time and having a wife to keep happy makes the Outremer a no go. I could absolutely see if you were singlehanding or just day sailing, but to live aboard it would be miserable compared to the other options out there. I get the going fast aspect, but other than the couple of days a year you might save doing long passages for us wouldn’t be worth the sacrifice you’d pay the other 360 days a year.
I recently spent two weeks living on and sailing a new Outremer and wasn't very miserable.
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Old 15-11-2019, 19:13   #23
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Re: New outremer model coming

We’ve got a first generation Outremer 55L and have lived on her during island cruises and passages up to two months at a time so far. Both of us love to cook and due to less time pressure eat better on board than we do at home. Yes, it’s a small galley. Yes, it doesn’t have a u shape. Yes, you use the salon table as a prep area sometimes. So what’s the problem with that for two people? We’ve had up to 5 on board for passages without any discomfort or crowding at all.

As for sailing ability, the 5-10% of sailing time can be miserable if your boat doesn’t sail well. How many times have you seen YT videos titled ‘worst passage ever’ describing a boisterous but not extreme upwind passage to or from NZ? We’ve done 4 of these passages and each one was just fine, despite the weather. A well-sailing boat can slow down for comfort, while a poor sailing boat is stuck. The blog Tika Travels has a good post http://www.tikatravels.com/the-boat/ about why sailing ability does matter for a cruising family.

I was aboard a FP50 at a boat show recently. Amazing living space and comfort. But I wouldn’t want to be on her with 40 knots of wind and waves on the bows. That doesn’t happen often, but it does happen. Do you want to suffer then?
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Old 15-11-2019, 20:11   #24
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Re: New outremer model coming

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We’ve got a first generation Outremer 55L and have lived on her during island cruises and passages up to two months at a time so far. Both of us love to cook and due to less time pressure eat better on board than we do at home. Yes, it’s a small galley. Yes, it doesn’t have a u shape. Yes, you use the salon table as a prep area sometimes. So what’s the problem with that for two people? We’ve had up to 5 on board for passages without any discomfort or crowding at all.

As for sailing ability, the 5-10% of sailing time can be miserable if your boat doesn’t sail well. How many times have you seen YT videos titled ‘worst passage ever’ describing a boisterous but not extreme upwind passage to or from NZ? We’ve done 4 of these passages and each one was just fine, despite the weather. A well-sailing boat can slow down for comfort, while a poor sailing boat is stuck. The blog Tika Travels has a good post The Boat – S.V Tika- Outremer 55 (2008) | Tika Travels about why sailing ability does matter for a cruising family.

I was aboard a FP50 at a boat show recently. Amazing living space and comfort. But I wouldn’t want to be on her with 40 knots of wind and waves on the bows. That doesn’t happen often, but it does happen. Do you want to suffer then?
I met a guy in Santa Barbara a couple weeks ago with a first gen Outremer 55 from New Zealand (Alcyone). He gave me a tour and what a beauty. Those boats are rare in the states but there were two in the harbor that day just a couple docks apart. This was his second 55 and he said he prefers the the first generation Outremers to the new ones because they sail better. He also said a friend of his newer Outremer's hull delaminated on both sides of one of the hulls - and not from hitting anything. It just happened. YIKES! He and his wife left New Zealand a few months ago and sailed the South Pacific a bit and then pulled into Hilo. Their passage from Hilo to Vancouver was only 15 days! Amazing. Those Outremers are way out of my league but what a boat.

How fast can you comfortably and safely lope along without any stress on your 55?
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Old 15-11-2019, 21:36   #25
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Re: New outremer model coming

My wife, daughter, and I spent 2 years sailing around the world on our Outremer 51 and thought it was the perfect boat for the task. I never once felt "miserable." It is a great ocean voyaging catamaran. There is a lot of value in sailing fast and arriving in port days before other boats. There is plenty of room and the galley works great.
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Old 15-11-2019, 22:08   #26
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Re: New outremer model coming

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I met a guy in Santa Barbara a couple weeks ago with a first gen Outremer 55 from New Zealand (Alcyone). He gave me a tour and what a beauty. Those boats are rare in the states but there were two in the harbor that day just a couple docks apart. This was his second 55 and he said he prefers the the first generation Outremers to the new ones because they sail better. He also said a friend of his newer Outremer's hull delaminated on both sides of one of the hulls - and not from hitting anything. It just happened. YIKES! He and his wife left New Zealand a few months ago and sailed the South Pacific a bit and then pulled into Hilo. Their passage from Hilo to Vancouver was only 15 days! Amazing. Those Outremers are way out of my league but what a boat.



How fast can you comfortably and safely lope along without any stress on your 55?

Small world! Alcyone was for sale in NZ at the same time as the one we bought (ex Blue Note). We chose the one with owners hull and all berths along the hull length vs the 4 cabin and transverse aft berths of the other. Can’t go wrong with long skinny hulls and a relatively high and very short bridgedeck. I see boats with bridgedecks from near bow and right to the sterns and just shake my head.

In flattish water even mid teens are comfortable - flat and the boat doesn’t feel pressed. Things stay put on the horizontal surfaces and you have to check the speedo or the rooster tails to realise the speed.

Broad reaching or downwind in ocean swells surfs into low 20s and averages low teens are manageable, but you can feel the boat dance a bit. Reefing down and slowing to low teens and average high single digits and you can leave your beer on the table without worrying about it.

Close reaching or upwind in waves up to 1.5m is effortless and speeds in high single digits or low teens if cracked off. But in bigger wind waves or steeper swells we limit the speed to high singles to prevent launching off wave tops.

For passage average we use 8 knots or a smidgen faster for 200 mile days. For upwind and reaching that’s spot on. We haven’t had any ocean downwind passages of any length so can’t say, but assuming trade winds then 250-300 miles a day. If motoring due to light spots or crazy seas then back down to 200 per day.

DDW would need pretty strong wind before gybing under the screecher didn’t pay off, so likely back to 200 per day.

I wouldn’t say no to a new generation 4x or 51, but the money is silly. First generation 55 or even the 50 (same hull lines, just shorter in the transoms and one less station up forward) is the sweet spot, though of course dated in interior design.
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Old 16-11-2019, 07:55   #27
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Re: New outremer model coming

I know this thread is about new Outremers, but I guess the oldies still have some legs left

Alcyone left New Zealand in April 2019 and arrived in BC the first week of July by way of the Australs, Tuamotus, and Hawaii. That's something over 7000 miles of sailing in three months. Yann is a typical French multihull sailor - he likes his boat to be able to perform and he likes to push her along.

For our part, we left Darwin in August of '18 and ended up in Sitka on July 4, 2019 - we crossed from Oahu at the same time Alcyone was crossing from Hilo. That was 20k miles in 320 days. Like Yann, we like to sail. Yes, it means we give up a fair amount in accommodations, but we're quite happy and comfortable. We even had 14 people for Christmas dinner at Ascension and had no problem fitting them in the cockpit and cooking the meal in the galley.

That's it for the storytelling, now back to the new Outremers.
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Old 16-11-2019, 09:51   #28
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Re: New outremer model coming

I heard the new model will be called 55.

But the galley and "living aboard" problems? Can you be more specific, please? What's wrong with the galley and why is living aboard not working out (for someone)?

I've been reading the Sail Wildling blog, and they seem to do fine
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Old 16-11-2019, 10:30   #29
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Re: New outremer model coming

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Small world! Alcyone was for sale in NZ at the same time as the one we bought (ex Blue Note). We chose the one with owners hull and all berths along the hull length vs the 4 cabin and transverse aft berths of the other. Can’t go wrong with long skinny hulls and a relatively high and very short bridgedeck. I see boats with bridgedecks from near bow and right to the sterns and just shake my head.

In flattish water even mid teens are comfortable - flat and the boat doesn’t feel pressed. Things stay put on the horizontal surfaces and you have to check the speedo or the rooster tails to realise the speed.

Broad reaching or downwind in ocean swells surfs into low 20s and averages low teens are manageable, but you can feel the boat dance a bit. Reefing down and slowing to low teens and average high single digits and you can leave your beer on the table without worrying about it.

Close reaching or upwind in waves up to 1.5m is effortless and speeds in high single digits or low teens if cracked off. But in bigger wind waves or steeper swells we limit the speed to high singles to prevent launching off wave tops.

For passage average we use 8 knots or a smidgen faster for 200 mile days. For upwind and reaching that’s spot on. We haven’t had any ocean downwind passages of any length so can’t say, but assuming trade winds then 250-300 miles a day. If motoring due to light spots or crazy seas then back down to 200 per day.

DDW would need pretty strong wind before gybing under the screecher didn’t pay off, so likely back to 200 per day.

I wouldn’t say no to a new generation 4x or 51, but the money is silly. First generation 55 or even the 50 (same hull lines, just shorter in the transoms and one less station up forward) is the sweet spot, though of course dated in interior design.
Would that performance still be achievable if loaded up by 1200 pounds (~550 kg) of 4 crew and provisioning?
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Old 16-11-2019, 11:44   #30
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Re: New outremer model coming

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Would that performance still be achievable if loaded up by 1200 pounds (~550 kg) of 4 crew and provisioning?

Our numbers are for 3-5 people and full cruising load including provisions, water toys and everything else we carry on board to make our boat a home away from home. Whether we go for a weekend or several months the only things coming on board are fresh food. We certainly couldn’t load up for 6 months without being very conscious of the extra weight and considering alternatives such dehydrated products vs cans.

Remember there’s 53 feet of waterline to distribute the load and the accomodations of a 35 or 38 footer. We have 3,500kg available above lightship albeit recognising that we actually only have about 500kg to play with given fixed equipment and sails.

Others who have cruised these boats for extended periods can attest to the numbers I’ve provided. The sailing performance comes with trade offs and people interested in a boat like the O55 (old or reportedly new) are willing to make those trade offs.
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