New Lagoon 42 Vs Lucia-40 ?

[CbroTheDude]

Originally Posted by Brav

Thanks for your info. New to the sailing world and the L42 is on our short list in the next few years.



Here is a curious thought from a complete sailing greenhorn, but from someone with some flying experience... wouldn't air temp theoretically affect sail performance? Cold air is more dense and therefore has a greater force on an object than less dense hot air has. This is critical for flying and calculating load capacity (altitude and thin air make it harder for a wing to work, thereby greatly reducing takeoff weight).



Has this effect ever been discussed with respect to sailing? Sorry for being off topic a bit but maybe relevant to the high speeds at near freezing. I would imagine the same wind speed in 100F tropics would have less acting force on the same sail.

This would only depend on how wind speed is measured on a particular boat.
As you might know, aircrafts can only measure AIS with simple equipments. This speed information also takes in account the lower air density. So maybe boats do the same although I admit I never really thought about it that way.

[CatNewBee]

Hi,

I was on several boat shows (Cannes La Grande Motte...) and have had a chance to look at the FP Helia / Lucia as well as at the Lagoons 42 / 39.

Overall the FP buld quality and the overall impression of the interior and exterior design was superior to the Lagoon's - despite they use almost the same material.

The FP are better finished and look much nicer, while the Lagoons give more an impression of an IKEA thing.

What I really like at FP is the low boom, that can be easy reached. The FP look fresher and more modern, the L39 is not really a competition to the Lucia 40.

The 42 can be a good choice - even she is much heavier than the Lucia - she has more usable space. If you do not care much about the furniture and the fitting - you get a bigger boat for about the same price. (you should also compare the final priice with all options installed, it adds up a lot)

Also the FP's have less storage because of the laminated positive floating foam structures in the bow and astern. Also they have sacrificial keels, that are only glued to the bottom and not bolted through, what makes them easier to replace in an accident with the ground without damaging the hull structure.

I would definitely prefer the Lucia 40 Maestro Owners Version with 2 Heads / 3 Cabin. However, she is out of my reach regarding the price tag.

[CatNewBee]

...Between the L42 and the Lucia 40 I would like to place the Leopard 40, dessign-wise a very nice spacious cat. Only one thing was a no-go for me - the forward cockpit with his "bathtub" behind the trampoline. I consider this design a no-go for ocean crossing attempts. You probably get a ton of water in in a swell, that will put your bow down and you will end up in trouble...

But for or a day-cruiser in light air - a great boat.

[Jim Woodall]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

...Between the L42 and the Lucia 40 I would like to place the Leopard 40, dessign-wise a very nice spacious cat. Only one thing was a no-go for me - the forward cockpit with his "bathtub" behind the trampoline. I consider this design a no-go for ocean crossing attempts. You probably get a ton of water in in a swell, that will put your bow down and you will end up in trouble...

But for or a day-cruiser in light air - a great boat.

Although Leopard touted the "forward cockpit" as an innovation, several other catamarans had something similar long before Leopard "introduced" it. On the production side, the Lagoon 440 had the "bathtub" from the time of its initial production in 2004 (I think). I've heard and read many sailors suggest it is not a good design for blue water, yet in hundreds, if not thousands, of ocean crossing I've never actually heard or read of it being an issue.

After more than a decade and hundreds of thousands of miles on these boats it seems there would be a case in point if it is a problem. Is anyone aware of a case in which the "bathtub", in fact, created a safety issue at sea?

[smj]

Originally Posted by Jim Woodall

Although Leopard touted the "forward cockpit" as an innovation, several other catamarans had something similar long before Leopard "introduced" it. On the production side, the Lagoon 440 had the "bathtub" from the time of its initial production in 2004 (I think). I've heard and read many sailors suggest it is not a good design for blue water, yet in hundreds, if not thousands, of ocean crossing I've never actually heard or read of it being an issue.



After more than a decade and hundreds of thousands of miles on these boats it seems there would be a case in point if it is a problem. Is anyone aware of a case in which the "bathtub", in fact, created a safety issue at sea?

There was a Leopard 44 that flipped during delivery across the Atlantic. The crew was lost so I'm guessing they have no idea what caused her to turn turtle.

[Jim Woodall]

Originally Posted by smj

There was a Leopard 44 that flipped during delivery across the Atlantic. The crew was lost so I'm guessing they have no idea what caused her to turn turtle.

When did this occur? I remember the Leopard on delivery from Cape Town to Thailand running into the cyclone and being lost, but I don't recall the incident you have referenced.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Jim Woodall

When did this occur? I remember the Leopard on delivery from Cape Town to Thailand running into the cyclone and being lost, but I don't recall the incident you have referenced.

I believe that was the incident. It was found by the Brazilian navy who took it in tow but lost it again? I'm sure if the forward seating area had filled up with water during the cyclone it could have had an impact on the stability of the cat.

[Jim Woodall]

Originally Posted by smj

I believe that was the incident. It was found by the Brazilian navy who took it in tow but lost it again? I'm sure if the forward seating area had filled up with water during the cyclone it could have had an impact on the stability of the cat.

I think the Sunsail Leopard was actually found by a commercial ship about 70 - 90 miles off the east coast of Africa, drifting in the general direction of the Cape of Good Hope. It was later taken in tow by a commercial salvage operator hired by TUI. She broke apart and was lost.

There has been a great deal of speculation about what happened in this incident. The crew of three had communication with family a few days before going missing and indicated they had experienced rough weather but all was well.

It is possible the forward cockpit played a role, but the boat sailed into a full cyclone and that alone was probably her undoing. Again, I've never heard of the forward cockpit actually compromising safety on any catamaran, but I am interested if there is an actual, verifiable case.

[smj]

I found the capacity of the forward cockpit and it holds over 745 gallons of water, that's over 6100 lbs. it's supposed to drain completely in 45 seconds, but how far down in the bow will she be with the extra 6100 lbs? I've never heard of problems with the forward cockpit either, but it sure gets me to thinkin!

[Factor]

Originally Posted by yeloya

At 12,5 true from 110 degrees 9,5 boat speed is something I cannot do with my Catana 47 even not with an Outremer 51, congratulations. Did you check the SOG as well ?
Do you have folding or feathering props ? Looking at video and the turbulence aft the boat, it appeared to me like you didn't. If so, it will be a good investment and you can easily add another knot of speed.


Cheers


Yeloya

At 12 knots true at 100 degrees true, have done 11 knots sustained in a Seawind 1160 Lite (with really really nice sails - but no code zero, just main and genoa). In similar I have done 10s and 11s on an Outremer 51, again with really really nice sails.

As for the forward cockpit lounge, mu concern is more about the effect on windward performance than being a big bathtub, but that swimming pool is a genuine concern, cant possibly drain in the claimed time.

[MattyBoy]

Just put our order in for a Lagoon 42. Hull #312 delivery in August 2018. Wow they have sold a bunch!! Wish we had done it sooner. Hopefully the Euro doesn't keep climbing till then!

[BlueBuddha]

Hi Matt congrats! Actually, aug 18 is better than I thought. We were assuming 16 months. We are placing our 42 order at the Annapolis boat show and we are also tracking the Euro by the minute. . Congrats again! I'll PM you sometime to chat about the options you chose if you don't mind.

[Jim Woodall]

Originally Posted by MattyBoy

Just put our order in for a Lagoon 42. Hull #312 delivery in August 2018. Wow they have sold a bunch!! Wish we had done it sooner. Hopefully the Euro doesn't keep climbing till then!

That's great! I think the 42 is a very good boat. I have Hull #146 S/V Ocean Song. She came out of the factory on June 29th, hand-over took place on July 12th and she put to sea a couple of days later in route to Tortola. Ocean Song is currently about 850nm west of the Cape Verde Islands.

We placed our order in June, 2016 and Lagoon informed us in March, 2017 of the ex-factory and hand-over dates and nailed both dates - no delays.

If the 42 keeps this sales pace up for another 12 months it will become one of the biggest selling cruising catamarans ever. The 42 will probably never come close to catching the 380's sales numbers, but it has a chance to move into the #2 slot.

[MattyBoy]

Originally Posted by BlueBuddha

Hi Matt congrats! Actually, aug 18 is better than I thought. We were assuming 16 months. We are placing our 42 order at the Annapolis boat show and we are also tracking the Euro by the minute. . Congrats again! I'll PM you sometime to chat about the options you chose if you don't mind.

Sounds good.

[jbinbi]

Not sure I should start another thread yet. The Lucia 40 and Lag 42 are not close to being comparable. It should be the Lagoon 40, not yet selling, or the 400 vs. the 40. In the states you can get a Lucia for about 420k delivered. It is much lighter than the 42 , and narrower. A 42 goes for 550k delivered with the same options.

How is the Lucia selling? I am wondering how it sails. The 42 needs a code zero in under 12 kts, the self tacking jib is very limiting in light to moderate air. What about the Lucia. It's SA/D is quite a bit better than the 42 and 40 coming out.