Leopard VS Lagoon

[Dulcesuenos]

Maybe an expert could chime in but I would think there's a chance the saturation could be isolated by numerous things. Some boats cored with end grain balsa have grooves or channels much like the front between times that mitigate moisture transgression, and minimize the damage. Not entirely sure how each of those boats are constructed but unless they were free or close to it, I doubt it's a good deal anyways

[Bean Counter]

Originally Posted by Nelsons

There will be a Lagoon 460 soon following the 420 design which is much nicer than the old fashioned 450. But coming back to the topic, I am convinced that in no way it can compete with a Leopard. I did a lot of research before I have signed for a Leo45 three months ago and it was not even a close decision.

Well at least the Leopard 45 is actually 45 ft long, but smaller than a Lagoon 450 in most aspects.

[DavefromNZ]

Originally Posted by Nelsons

But coming back to the topic, I am convinced that in no way it can compete with a Leopard. I did a lot of research before I have signed for a Leo45 three months ago and it was not even a close decision.

Really? Why?

[CatNewBee]

It is for sure personal preference, nothing objective. Both are really nice and spacios catamarans.

[LeeV]

They both have pos/negatives and appeal to different buyers; like cars you'll get lemons everywhere!

My wife loves the L45, but we've been looking for a few years now and are aware of some of the issues that have plagues all of the "Big 3" boats, including these on the Leopard Owner's Group and the latter specifically on the new L45:

1. Hi Guys ,
Just thought I would post this as another warning . The forward windows in the older Leipard models are extremely dangerous. I was heading east along the Cuban cost yesterday and took a large wave over the bow which stoved in the port forward window , filling the boat with a lot of salt water . I bore away fast and went to work closing the hole to stop any more water from destroying the boat further . Made it into Marina Gaviota de Bita to make repairs .
This has been spoken about before and the consensus is the large portlights cut into the plexi is dangerous, I can concur these need to be changed out and I have been putting this off for a while . Now I have a massive cleanup to do .

2. First, as our 42's (45's, 47's) tend to ride a bit 'bow high', rain runs off of the salon roof, thru the gap behind the top louver and right down across the inward opening ports. Not wanting to caulk this gap, I have closed it with white gorilla tape. Not very seamanlike, but effective and not obvious.

The second flaw is the structural issue of the lexan windows and inward opening ports. A few boats have had failures. We don't know the percentage of failures. Most of us have not had breaking waves over that area. Spray yes, but full heavy waves no. Such is worth avoiding whenever possible.. Solid thick lexan windows are a solution, but eliminates the ventilation that many of us really appreciate. Another solution could be to remove the louver/steps and install proper outward opening ports/ hatches set in thick lexan. My First Mate and I really like the louver/steps and ventilation.. Thicker lexan and better ports are likely in our future. Every boat has compromises, and the skipper must assess the risk and make decisions.

3. I have a one year old Leopard 45 (2017 model) based in the Philippines. We are in the midst of a fairly heavy rainy season and I have noticed some water ingress into the underfloor locker at the foot of the bed in the master cabin. To my horror on removing ceiling panels I have noted saturated wood panels (some turning black with mould/rot). There is no obvious source of the leak but I thinking it might be coming from the stanchion footings. Has anyone had a similar experience or can share any actions I should take to identify/fix? Pics attached.

cheers

[saltydog47]

When putting your hard earned money into anything , I would want to know it had a sound base / hull / foundation .
In the 80s I built /fitted out a 41ft Yacht. Starting with a Rival 41 hull , Built to Lloyd’s Hull construction. Certificate . This was one of the best at the time .
A very sound hull .
Today the same goes for Cats I would want to know that the hull was very sound indeed . That does not include a cored hull below the W/l .

[smj]

I have a friend that owns a Lagoon and he says even in light seas there is flexing of the solid glass hull around the seacocks. I'm guessing a well constructed and sealed cored hull below the waterline would have less chance of this problem?


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[LeeV]

I look at this fellow's videos from time to time and appreciated some of the tech advise. This one just arrived and from the area he's covered, the seas they've crossed and the looks of this footage, including where they anchored, I don't think he's worried about any flexing.

I will say, the couple of times I've been aboard Lagoons, they did seem to creak more than any other.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KdTdLvMOr0&t=29s

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by smj

I have a friend that owns a Lagoon and he says even in light seas there is flexing of the solid glass hull around the seacocks. I'm guessing a well constructed and sealed cored hull below the waterline would have less chance of this problem?

The question is: Is flexing a problem or do you think it is one? Have you read account of disasters because a flexing hull?

Many problems on the internet are exagerated. I can honestly say our L380 flexes way less than our Mahe did. And neither of them had troubles with this flexing.
And I would buy any of these in a heartbeat.

[smj]

Originally Posted by rabbi

The question is: Is flexing a problem or do you think it is one? Have you read account of disasters because a flexing hull?



Many problems on the internet are exagerated. I can honestly say our L380 flexes way less than our Mahe did. And neither of them had troubles with this flexing.

And I would buy any of these in a heartbeat.

I think that's a good point, is the flexing and creaking bulkheads something structural or just an annoyance? I know it would be something that would drive me freaking crazy!


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[rabbi]

Originally Posted by smj

I think that's a good point, is the flexing and creaking bulkheads something structural or just an annoyance? I know it would be something that would drive me freaking crazy!

None of our boats had flexing structural bulkheads. Creaking always came from furniture.

[smj]

Originally Posted by rabbi

None of our boats had flexing structural bulkheads. Creaking always came from furniture.

I’m sure the creaking furniture is caused by flexing?

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by smj

I’m sure the creaking furniture is caused by flexing?

Of course every hull is flexing to some degree. Yours included.
Furniture flexes differently than the hull, so it moves and rubs against something else. This is not structural, and is present in all cats to some degree, unless some builder puts lots of effort into reducing the creaking (like making structural bonds for the main furniture components).

Maybe remove the furniture in a Lagoon and rebuild it so it doesn't creak at all. Or just leave it out so it can't creak. Would this lack of noise be a structural improvement? I don't think so.

[arsenelupiga]

flexing is essential, else you have brittle situation that cant smoothe shocks in bad seas.

Our L 400 does not crack at all. I use wd40 here and there.

In saying that L400 is extremly stiff boat, as all other lagoons post 2008 build. No standing rigging soft spots in any seas seen yet. Stiffness adds ability to have screecher and use it to windward to 15 kn app. Meaning I can sail in sub 5 kn winds at wind speed or so. Older lagoons have larger jibs to compensate.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by rabbi

Of course every hull is flexing to some degree. Yours included.

Not so

Furniture flexes differently than the hull, so it moves and rubs against something else. This is not structural, and is present in all cats to some degree, unless some builder puts lots of effort into reducing the creaking (like making structural bonds for the main furniture components).

Some boats are built with furniture added in some are built with the furniture as an integral part of the monocoque structure. The furniture in effect adds rigidity.