Lagoon Confidence Lacking

[aidancarlan]

After years of slow but very safe and steady travel in my old Prout Cat I've bought a 2007 Lagoon 380 S2 (#471). A lovely boat that has recently sailed to my home of Moreton Bay all the way from Greece. Despite this since after reading these forums I'm having real problems with going offshore in this boat. This has not been helped by my finding a plywood plug under one of the bunks designed fill the hole if one of the big portlight windows falls out. Along with the Goiot safety hatch that has the Lagoon mini safety bracket attached I'm wondering if I have made a mistake. I never worried about being out in a blow on the Prout, I actually enjoyed a lively sail. How can I feel the same about the Lagoon?

[BenBowSirocco]

Well, this is really a very personal mental hurdle. But I might offer a couple ideas to use as tools in the journey.



First and foremost, it might be easy to forget that there was a time you didnt fully trust the Prout- like the very first time you ever had her out in a blow probably had a couple questions clambering about in your mind: because it was the first time sailing a blow in your new boat.

My point being that confidence in a new boat takes time and practice.



Another thing to consider, even the Lagoons with bad bulkheads seem to get the sailors to port. I am sure not everyone is so lucky, but it seems to me most of these people are repairing these problems at port: so the boat made it in. I imagine you had a thing or two go "wrong" out in the Prout at one point or another. Its part of the game.

The idea being to try and remember that most problems that develop at sea are not catastrophic.

*This idea could be helped along by a "pre-sail" inspection list. Make up a series of things to run around and do a quick check upon before leaving the dock.



Something we did to prepare for a delivery sail we were doing was before setting off on our first passage we had the opportunity to go out in a big blow in protected waters. This was not intended as some big "boat test" so much as an opportunity to get to know the boats manners and do a thorough systems check. We beat the boat pretty hard that day- ran her around over canvassed through all points, did a couple big jibes at speed, bashed her to windward hard and out of rhythm.. etc.
When we got back to the dock, we had a few things to work on, but more importantly: we really felt more prepared and confident for the upcoming passage on an old, but new to us boat.

The idea is to get out in water you know, in conditions outside your comfort zone and get to know the boat and how she reacts.

*once you feel you pushed the boat towards her limits a bit: run through your structural checklist!







Basically I think you have two options: get to know the boat and learn to trust it, or sell it. Dont let it ruin your sailing passion by limiting you to light and easy days.

Just my 2-cents.

[mbianka]

A a number of years ago when we chartered a Lagoon 47 in Belize I took this video while underway in my cabin. I shuddered to think what might happen should some heavy floating debris slide along the hull and hit one of hatches knocking it off or damaging it. Then again you don't hear of Lagoons sinking on a frequent basis because of a hatch failure.

https://youtu.be/vSFOSR6Wg5c?si=CZFifmunXnab4HWv

[Jeannius]

Well you've bought probably the best Lagoon model of the last 25 years. There's a reason they carried on building them for so long... They got it right, just like Prout did another 20 years earlier. Wait for boatman61 to come along. If I remember correctly, he's crossed many oceans in 38s and 380s and holds them in high regard.

[aidancarlan]

Thanks every one. I'll just get out there and put some miles under the keels.

[LeeV]

The only reason we didn’t buy a 38(0) was because it was just a bit too small for our needs. I believe it to be the best model Lagoon ever built.
That said we bought a 450F, had the bulkheads repaired, but still sold the boat.

Get a serious survey, and if you find things that can be repaired, do so, and enjoy the boat. For items such as the escape ports, there are some good solutions in the FB forums.

[barnab]

You wear a life vest. Do you expect to fall in the water? No, but you wear it "just in case"
You have fire extinguisher(s). Do you expect anything to catch fire? No, but you have one "just in case"
You have wood plugs for your through-hull. Do you expect them to fall out? No, but you have plugs "just in case"


There is a ton of things you have on your boat "just in case" and "to be prepared for a bad case". Consider the plywood for the escape hatch to be just one more item on the "just in case list".

The windows didn't fall out on hundreds of boats, no before the brackets and certainly not after.



One last thing you can consider if you still feel bad about the hatches: Replace them by a model you trust, by a safety glass (remember to put the little hammers inside and outside, you can't break the glass with a sledge hammer or fire extinguisher)

[jleonar]

Something else you can do on the hatches. There is a company making fiberglass overlays for the outside. Basically bolt and 5200 that over the escape hatches. It slightly overlaps the glass so the glass cannot fall out. Relatively cheap and easy fix for piece of mind. Obviously that doesn't fix anything something floating in the ocean goes crashing thru the glass. Therefore I think keeping piece of plywood cut to size for that opening is just appropriate.

In moderate seas, a lot of water will come thru that hatch.

[Snowgoose35]

Remember any coded vessel is legally required to keep plywood infills for any hatch within a certain distance of the waterline - that's a rule that goes back decades so has nothing to do with Lagoon build quality. (This is an EU coding law so if the boat was chartered ever it had to have one, needed or not)

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by barnab

... One last thing you can consider if you still feel bad about the hatches: Replace them by a model you trust, by a safety glass (remember to put the little hammers inside and outside, you can't break the glass with a sledge hammer or fire extinguisher)

A spring-loaded automatic centre punch is an excellent [small/cheap] tool, to break/shatter [tempered] glass.

[Tin Tin]

The plywood plug for the hull window is a "just in case" event. I would also carry a plywood plug for the escape hatch.


The hull windows need to be closely inspected and maintained. If the white coating on the window has faded or rubbed off over time, it will be letting UV damage the underlying adhesive/sealant - so important to renew this coating. In addition those windows can pop if a fender is placed over the window and it hits a dock post (there are signs about where not to place fenders). Finally refrain from pressure washing around the windows and emergency hatches especially if boat is or has been kept in freezing conditions.


I think your model has fixed glass hatch. There should be a special hammer on the inside and another in the life-raft area so it can be broken from the outside as well. The retrofit alloy plates to hold the glass in place in the event of a seal failure should be sufficient, however it may be possible to boost security buy using sealed through bolts and nuts on the inside in lieu of the screws. A wooden plug would be a good fall back. A mates Prout 45 had an escape hatch busted by a wayward dolphin.

[barnakiel]

Define offshore.


Charter boats ARE NOT designed for extensive offshore work. They are defined for coastal charter work.


Nearly any craft will make a basic offshore passage these days. Just do not ask a charter boat to do this day in day out.



Horses for the courses.


b.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by aidancarlan

This has not been helped by my finding a plywood plug under one of the bunks designed fill the hole if one of the big portlight windows falls out.

Sounds like your delivery skipper / previous owner prepared for nasty but unlikly events. Good for you!



Compare the number of blogs / vlogs / FB groups for Lagoons vs Prouts and you will understand why you will never read many horror stories about Prouts. They simply had their prime days before the internet.

The 380 has a very active community. Most problems that you may face have been faced & documented before. Just join the FB groups.

Welcome aboard! I am on my third Lagoon, and my second 380 now. Would buy again anytime!

[LagoonJim]

Aidan, I could write a novel... most posts, especially anything 'Lagoon', tend to turn into flame fests. I usually say nothing, but your post caught my eye for three reasons: I'm a Lagoon owner(500), I like you had similar concerns(or misconceptions), and I have strong knowledge of 380 construction.

First, cut all posts claiming to know of a fatal or value impacting 'flaw' on a Lagoon to 10%. 90% are flat wrong, or have overblow the problem in a social media driven delusion.

I thought I had to 'baby' my 500 when I bought her. I came from monohull/ heavy cruising / 70s-80s model / 1"+ FRP hull vessels, and I accepted my cat purchase as a light weight 'fun' boat. It's not outright wrong to think that, but don't let it stop you using your boat.

I've since put the 500 into several undesirable circumstances. It didn't break, and it was way more forgiving than I expected. Sure, you reef often and early, but what cruising boat should you not do that in?

No space to address every blog myth, but an example is a recent post regarding bulkheads and tabbing on a 500. A few guys tried to present sound evidence to refute the claim, but they were over-run by non-owners. I actually own a 500, I know what's there, the claim was simply wrong. Point is, use your own eye's and judgement when gauging these 'issues'. Just because there isn't someone wasting their time to say they are wrong, doesn't mean they are right.

Lagoon bash frenzy seemed to takeoff with the bulkhead problem on 450s.
A good buddy of mine owns a 450, I've inspected this blukhead with him. It does happen, it's not outright fatal if it goes unnoticed, there is an easy fix, but it doesn't apply to other models, and most certainly DOES NOT apply to a 380.

I'm consistently surprised by the level of consumer softness in the boating world. In aviation, we receive an Airworthiness Directive, we take the necessary maintenance steps, and we keep flying. Geez, if every pilot and aircraft owner screamed the bloody murder you hear on these blogs...let's just say planes would never fly.

As for your boat, like any big production line, something could have changed over the years, but I've inspected and worked on the entirety of a model 380. (I own the Jet Thruster Distributorship for North America, and personally installed, with two of my men, our bow/stern system, both hulls, in a 380 for a friend in La Paz)

Here are my quick thoughts.
1) I like the 380 better than the 500 for sailing/handling, practical cruising, and strength of construction(it's smaller with same structural design elements).
2) The 380 is well built in it's own right, monolithic below the waterline, tabbed properly(where it counts), and stout structural bulkheads
3) Much of the interior joinery, like most Lagoons, 'floats' or is glued in, by design(this causes the 'creaking' ignorant social media stars cry about)

[major note: do NOT remove waterlocks for engines, I know that seems obvious, but...]

Trust me, I can tell you plenty of things CNB does wrong at the factory. EVERY boat is like that, and I've worked on A LOT of boats. If you want my exhaustive list with a Lagoon, feel free to message me.

That said, the 380 is a fine boat. Obviously, it's not as stout as a Prout, but it's bigger for the foot print, has other superior qualities, and it might actually surprise you handling in certain conditions. The good kind of 'that went better than I thought' surprise. You will have to work HARD to break it.

Read the article below, and if you still have doubts, and are willing to wait until I retire for the big 'solo' trip, I'll trade you my 500 for your 380.

https://www.soundingsonline.com/news...e-proves-fatal

Cheers!

[aidancarlan]

As a footnote to this post, nearly a year and 2000 nautical miles later I have a different view. The weather on Australia’s east coast this year has been wild to say the least. Jenny and I have been really through it on our trusty 380. So glad we chose her. She is our home now and I’m writing this sitting out another 35kn gale. Happy relaxed in our tough comfy little home. Another new sensation for us is overtaking other boats. We’re not the fastest, but unless you’re a race boat you gotta try to keep up. Yes we love our 380.