FP osmosis

[Sirius 42]

My boat is being put on the hard at the moment and at the boat lifters I came across this FP with some serious work being done on her.
I have been looking at cats for a while now and reading this forum and had heard about some of the FP cats having a osmosis problem. Well seeing is believing. This boat was riddled and not just below the waterline, lots of bubbles above and basically all over the boat.
I feel for the owner, They are removing about 5mm of gel coat and back through the glass on nearly all surfaces under the waterline and not sure what they will do above. Photos don't show just how bad it is.
I will keep looking at cats but not FP's I think.

[yeloya]

Some models of FP, particularly Lavezzi and Orana's have had this problem. We repaired at least a dozen of them under FP warranty and all of them are happily sailing without issues or any sign of reoccurance after many years.

So there is nothing to dramatise. Moreover, new model of FP don't have this problem any more.


Cheers


Yeloya

[Factor]

Nothing to see here - move along move along

[SV DestinyAscen]

When you pair non-osmosis resistant resin and potential for poor prep + large volume you're bound to have issues in a few boats. There's a lot of QC industry literature in manufacturing/medicine that gives me pause if I'm getting work done right before a two week holiday or when people come back after time of .

It's how the company responds that's key. I'll hate to be early series owner fighting to get company toacknowledge . Company response to secondary owners I'm sure affect value

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen

It's how the company responds that's key.

Obviously FP had issues with this on several models and model years. I have seen Mahe 36 from 2006 to 2010 affected and I believe that was the time frame with the most issues.

Our 2006 Mahe had the bottom peeled, too. That was in 2008 or so when she was still with the first owners, and was covered by FP.

Not a single bubble re-appeared, and the peel job is only noticeable if one knows what to look out for.
In this case FP stood behind their product and did a good job fixing their mess.

Consequently FPs are high on my next boat shopping list. But only if they already had the peel job done, or if at least model year 2011.

[zboss]

Why would any modern boat be built using a layup with known osmosis issues?

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by zboss

Why would any modern boat be built using a layup with known osmosis issues?

Answer: Cost


Although I doubt that FP knew about the osmosis issue before it popped up after a few years in the water. They paid big money for all the fixes, so it was an expensive lesson.

[caymancat]

I asked FP about this problem with regard to Salina 48's. They acknowledged that there had been issues.
As a result, they switched from using polyester resins to using the more expensive vinylester resins in 2010.
They say that this has cured the problems.

[PhiSig1071]

So this was mostly a problem from 2006-2010? Were there osmosis issues caused by build in the earlier models? Venezia/Bahia/Belize?

[caymancat]

Originally Posted by PhiSig1071

So this was mostly a problem from 2006-2010? Were there osmosis issues caused by build in the earlier models? Venezia/Bahia/Belize?

Those are the same dates that I was given. I only asked about Salinas, although Oranas also came up in the conversation.
I was told that 2010 onwards there is no longer an issue, due to the change in the resins used and refinements to the process. They said that the change was to make doubly sure that there are no more problems.

FP say that they don't know exactly what caused the problem (although were using a new process).

[yeloya]

Originally Posted by PhiSig1071

So this was mostly a problem from 2006-2010? Were there osmosis issues caused by build in the earlier models? Venezia/Bahia/Belize?

Never heard or seen any problem with Venezia, Bahia and Belize.
It's true that FP doesn't make any explanation about what all the problem was about but I am sure they know the reason.
My guess is that the problem started when they first switched to vacuum infusion process which probably required some chemicals to be added to the polymer for easier flow of the resin that somehow might have affected the polymerisation reaction..
What I don't understand is why it took so long to figure out this problem and they continued for so many years to use the same process and same polymer..

Cheers

Yeloya

[rourkeh]

FP had some MAJOR issues with their layup a few years back. I worked with an owner on the purchase of a FP 60' in the BVI's a few years ago and part of the purchase requirement was to have the factory cover the extensive blistering below the waterline. The warranty was not transferable to the second owner for this problem. The factory agreed to cover the repair and when the boat was hauled, stripped and examined it turned out to be a multi year problem with a new resin reacting badly. The boat had to be taken back the gelcoat and two layers of glass and built back up. Total cost $30k. NOT the end of the problem.
1 year later the new owner hauled the boat to do the bottom and the and the blistering was back worse than before. He called in a surveyor to document the problem and in his educated opinion, due to structural issues the boat could not be repaired again and should be condemned. I looked at the hull in the yard and would agree the boat was a death trap. They built A LOT of boats with this layup schedule over the two year period with the bad resin. Be very careful of FP product. There is a lot of information out there on this subject.

[yeloya]

Originally Posted by rourkeh

The boat had to be taken back the gelcoat and two layers of glass and built back up.

This is by far too little stripping.. We did about 15-20 osmosis repairs on various FP's and in some cases we had to go so deep that one could see what is on the other side of the hull..

The hulls have to be dried for at least 3 months and in some cases vacuum heaters are to be used and the hulls should be washed with fresh waters 3-4 times.

FP doesn't have a specific procedure for the treatment, they just require the humidity measurement to be reduced at certain level. This sometimes is not fully achieved, at least on some part of the hulls, because of the chemicals added on the polymer that were used in production.
For recoating we use multi layer epoxy barriers and lot of sandpapering. So far we never had any osmosis which came back.
I am not saying by any means that the boat was not treated properly but it's really strange to see that the boat was deemed "irreparable".

I wonder what FP had to say to this..

Cheers

Yeloya