Explocat x Neel (+HH44)?

[nbourbaki]

Greetings all,

The subject contains those brands whose marketing departments have succeeded in suckering me in.

Of the three, I am most drawn to the Explocat.
-aluminum
-insulated, double glazed windows
-protected(ish) helm
-nontrivial water and fuel storage
-“exploration ethos” (sure, more southern Alaska than NWpassage, but that is fine for me).

Neel trimaran
-speed, sailing and stability of trimaran
-main floor suite
-central weight in main hull
-spacious and accessible engine room

HH44 (while I love the sport car look, I am mainly thinking of the energy management, which I know can be found elsewhere too):
-extensive built in solar
-hybrid drive
-water regeneration
-rainwater collection

So, basically I am looking for an aluminum Neel built by Garcia fitted by HH.

Thoughts? Drawbacks? Designer/builder recommendations?

Use will start with extended cruising in pacific north west (Seattle to Alaska), eventually with Pacific circumnavigation in mind. Decent sailing experience. Yes I know monohulls are much more common in PNW and exploration sailing.

Cheers!

[absoffthewake]

Our search is leading down similar paths. Something to consider is the beam width. The number of places you can haul out drop considerably with every foot over 24". Depending on how you cruise and/or the marinas that are near "home base", this can either be a non-issue or a major headache.

We were attracted to the Neel 47 largely because of the saloon level master, but when we added up the cons on our list they outweighed the pros. Its a long list but some of the noteworthy ones are I didn't like the outdoor room concept as it seemed to result in less usable space for storage & appliances and I felt the separation could come with a number of other unforeseen annoyances. The wife felt the separation could be nice and would lead to more privacy, but I felt it would result in guests wearing out their welcome in the saloon and common areas as they would only go to their rooms to sleep and change. Have not yet had the opportunity to ask an owner without a conflict of interest about their experiences in that department. We also saw several online accounts of recent owners complaining of ongoing quality issues after handover, but that seems to have been normalized with production cats. I also feel more at ease with the redundancy and maneuverability of dual motors. Docking with a trimaran in tight quarters is challenging, even with a bowthruster. The 27' beam ultimately killed the Neel for us.

Haven't seen the Explocat in person and have not been able to dig up any skeletons on it. Only anticipated annoyance I can think of is the multiple faraday cages throughout the boat blocking wireless signals. Maybe that will be a blessing in disguise! It may be able to be mitigated with repeaters but I'm sure there are some real-world annoyances/challenges there.

We are scheduled to tour the HH44 at Annapolis. Can't wait to finally see it in person! I have my concerns with carbon masts and lightning but I've yet to find an example of a strike leading to a dismasting/major mast repair of a larger boat. I asked a major mast manufacturer about it, and they said to make sure we have insurance, carbon doesn't like heat. They also said most manufacturers design the mast to direct the energy away from the mast (IE: down the shrouds/stays). I'm unsettled about it but the lack of evidence of real-world incidents gives me some level of comfort. There are a lot of carbon masts out there and the only blown-up ones I've seen have been on dinghies.

We are still not sure about the new helm positions. We sailed on an Excess 11 and their implementation of it was quickly ruled out as an option for all their models. We did not like the exposure to the elements and the difficulty in seeing the sails/opposite side of the boat. But what we hated the most was the awkwardness of the line handling. You have to bend forward and reach hard (or climb the seats/stairs) to get to the clutches. I'm 6.0' so shorter individuals will have a much harder time. The electric winch switches are in a terrible location so its hard to keep them pressed down, and the high concentration of lines over the stairs result in spaghetti trip hazards near the sugarscoops. Working the lines is incredibly inefficient as you have to continually wrap and unwrap the lines every time you adjust something in order to prevent trip hazards. In analyzing the renders, the HH44 seems to have made an attempt to address these issues but we won't know for sure until we step onboard in person. In the Caribbean, coral heads and crab traps are a fact of life and blind spots don't provide any comfort. Even if the line handling and exposure to the elements is addressed, the visibility is still restricted. Looking through windows with glare and salt spray is NOT acceptable to me. We prefer the helms of the Catana OC, Leopard 45, and the HH50 OC, but are willing to give the HH44 a chance as it does appear to be better implemented. We have no interest in their electric motor option. I feel sorry for the well-meaning souls that don't realize bilges sometimes get salt water in them, complicated systems lead to complicated problems, and lightning strikes happen more often than some are willing to admit. I'm a techy that is old enough to know less is more.

[The Yacht Rigger]

After working on both the Neel and HH, I would lean towards the HH or Explocat - with bias to the Explocat after working on some Garcia's and seeing the quality of their work.

HH does seem to be very high quality build and equipment wise, but the Explocat just seems like such a beast - more focus on robustness/endurance than speed - where with HH you are certainly paying a premium for "pretty".

The Neel's I've worked on have had far too many build quality issues for me to consider one for a cruising boat.

[Kinkircating]

So all of these boats definitely have their positives, but they are vastly different machines built for different missions.

The HH and the Garcia are an an entire different planet quality wise. The Neel is a nice boat, but more to the charter cat level of quality (and the cost reflects this as well). The other drawbacks IMO are it drafts too much and it's performance is a tad underwelming. But damn all that space on one level is nice.

The HH looks fantastic, other than not being able to see the sails and having the aft helm positions. I'm going to check it out in Annapolis as well. Innovative designs helps the entire industry improve! My only suggestion here is that I'd take extra waterline & beam over a fancier fit out.

In the spirit of full disclosure we looked at all of these brands and other, and then chose a Balance 526 MkII for reasons that are most likely different than what's important to you. In the end you need to get aboard a ton of different boats and definitely sail them if you can as well. More time experiencing different boats in their element will help you make a decision that's best for you and the way you'll use the boat.

[Rjstutch]

Sounds like you want an ODC48 by Odisea Yachts. They are moving to build in Vietnam from Greece. Aluminium, very fast cat based on the Mumby 48 design. Co-designed by a cruiser with a significant multihull and monohull sailing background and I think they look great!

[nbourbaki]

Originally Posted by Rjstutch

Sounds like you want an ODC48 by Odisea Yachts. They are moving to build in Vietnam from Greece. Aluminium, very fast cat based on the Mumby 48 design. Co-designed by a cruiser with a significant multihull and monohull sailing background and I think they look great!

Thanks for the suggestion! I know the Mumby 48 but not that shipyard or build. Worth following.