Cat City - Home of Broken Dreams

[nauticalnovice]

Originally Posted by contrail

<a massive amount of detailed, useful information deleted for brevity>

Thank you for your insight. It is valued and important information.

> And an American [boat owner] doesn't need a work permit or some such.

Depending on my situation, I might be willing to do a large amount of the work myself. My biggest worry is getting bogged down in the morass of current circumstance. I want to bring as much stuff in as possible (possibly including food), using tools that require as little power as possible and make quick repairs sufficient to get the vessel else where... and then just abandon whatever doesn't fit on the boat, giving it away to those who need it. As the boat owner, I should have the right and ability to make repairs. Where I need outside help is making those repairs quickly and having someone with the ability to qualify what repairs need to be done (and how they should be done) to make the boat seaworthy.

> The Government does not want the BVI to be littered with wrecked boats,

Yeah, I completely get that. That's why I want to get in there, do the work and get the hell out as quickly as possible, doing everyone a service in process.

> Nanny Cay, Virgin Gorda Yacht Harbour, and East End Boat Yard.

I'm sort of looking at going the opposite direction, south of Martinique, St. Lucia down to Grenada. Everything between PR and Dominica is completely trashed. The islands are space close enough (maybe 50km to 75km between islands) that I would feel more comfortable making those voyages with a broken boat. Question is: can I get a mast in/to those locations? It's over 200km to get up to the BVI (but transportation from Tortola to the US Gulf Coast via vessel carrying barges is being arrange in the BVI). It'd be freaking fantastic if I could get up there, perform more permanent repairs on the barge and put a mast one it in the US.

Again, thank you and, if I make it up the BVI, I'll drop you a line.

[nauticalnovice]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

I have looked at some of those boats too. You need to forget Panama and Columbia. Getting a mast there will be problematic on a good day. You have freight (freighter), customs, duties, rigger and more. 2 of the biggest mast manufacturers have factories in the US, Florida and South Carolina to be exact. You need to be close to there to make everything easier and cheaper. Also check that the yard will allow you to do your own work. Many do not. You will need electricity.

And don't forget that hurricane season will be here soon.

> 2 of the biggest mast manufacturers have factories in the US, Florida and South Carolina to be exact.

yeah... I kept drawing a blank looking for which company made the spar for the Sunsail boats... Most of the places list the mast as being made by Sunsail, which I know isn't right. I don't really give a **** what the replacement spar is just as long as it rigs correctly at the foot and lateral stays (and is basically the same specs with regard to sail area; conflicted about deraiting or increasing size for performance).

From what I'm gathering Selden Mast Inc. has a factory in Dorchester County, South Carolina, right about here https://www.google.com/maps/dir/''/Selden+Mast+Inc.++Dorchester+County,+South+Carolin a/@32.9130259,-80.1618124,12z/data=!4m8!4m7!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x88fe627c2e4122cb:0x6 1ccb574a1c1e5aa!2m2!1d-80.0917722!2d32.9130454

I wonder if I could motor up the Ashley far enough for Selden to put the mast on themselves. The bridge for the Mark Clark expressway doesn't really look like it has enough clearance (yep... it's only 35')
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genera...oreland_Bridge

> And don't forget that hurricane season will be here soon

ugh... and the hits just keep coming.

[nauticalnovice]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Run! The repairs are going to chose more than buying a boat in good condition. Get them to pay you to take it but drive a hard bargain. I'm trying to be a wise as, run.

I am conflicted. I know there's going to be a bunch of repaired catamarans depressing the market in the next 2 to 5 years.

Here's to lower prices!

Question is, do I want to be one of the sellers or one of the buyers?

[nauticalnovice]

Originally Posted by contrail

Find a yard or fiberglasser who can do the work, first. Neither has much availability down here, at the moment. I hear similar from Florida, but that's out of my range. Good luck. If you want to bring in a worker, find out work permit issues, FIRST.

Roger that.

Curious to know what sort of latitude the boat owner is afforded or the holder of a limited power of attorney.

[nauticalnovice]

Originally Posted by SweetTeaSailor

It took us 5.5 months to get a new mast, jib and re-rig (after demasting at the spreaders at the dock during Irma). That was with good insurance and very attentive husband near a good area for repairs in Florida. Husband did the demo bc no one was available to salvage. I can't even imagine doing this long distance. But we humans have a hard time passing up a "good" project despite all odds and solid advice against it!

> It took us 5.5 months to get a new mast, jib and re-rig (after demasting at the spreaders at the dock during Irma).

Jesus... if the $150/day rate is accurate, that's over $20k just to sit there and wait for a mast.

Nah... I'm going to the mast ASAP. King Neptune don't charge no fee, 'cept what he takes out of your hide.

[nauticalnovice]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Run! The repairs are going to chose more than buying a boat in good condition. Get them to pay you to take it but drive a hard bargain. I'm trying to be a wise as, run.

> Get them to pay you to take it but drive a hard bargain.

yeah... I've been watching cat prices fall in anticipation of deal swooping. Way I see it, I've got two choices:

1) get a very good deal for an older cat someone is upgrading from

or

2) get an absolute bargain for a slightly damaged boat

One price has to be under the other.

[nauticalnovice]

Originally Posted by alansmith

Nautical Novice, I have no connection with Contrail. So, don't misunderstand me. This guy is at ground zero. His information is always spot on and logical. He is posting for no financial gain. He is not soliciting business. He is just one of those guys who still gives a flying friget about human beings and offers up factual information and advice that costs you nothing...but is exactly how he would do it. I would suggest you think carefully before ignoring his advice.

I know that the temptation of buying some of these very expensive boats for a song and a dance is so strong as to make rational men make big mistakes. I wish you good luck and think this through carefully. If it took Contrail...and he is in the industry...and connected...that long to get his boat back together...and he has a place to live other than the boat....can you imagine the financial carnage for you?

Second question: It is now almost May. Prime hurricane season is August through late October. There are some that sneak in as early as early July and show up late for the destructive derby in November. Do you think that 2018 will have less hurricanes? It is a crap shoot at best.

Even if you went down there yourself and had the skill sets necessary....and a guy like Contrail who knows everyone took over half a year...what is your forecast?

yeah, I get it. I know someone extremely capable who left with his tail between his legs. $400/night for a hotel room with intermittent power and water that you need to boil is enough to make most civilized men cry... and the summer heat will be upon those of us in the Northern Hemisphere right quickly.

Fly in after doing exhaustive research, with the right supplies and a plan that can survive getting punched in the face and there is the very slimmest of possibilities.

That's what this conversation is about.

[nauticalnovice]

Originally Posted by Russ

My son is your guy. But where are you going to do the job. He’s an all around Boat guy but FG repair and painting are what he does best. Based in Ft Pierce FL

Russ Davignon. 802-279-2258. Or <svascension@yahoo.com>
.

Vermont, eh?

From what I've been reading I'd need to get a work permit lined up.

I might have a plan... let me work on it a bit.

[Ex-Calif]

Ship all the stuff you can think of that you need to the USVI first (sans customs hassles) then lash it all to the boat and take with. You may get eyes raised at repair port but many places allow "bonding" - that is if you take out what you bring in you just leave a deposit with customs that you get back when you take said goods away...

[nauticalnovice]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

Ship all the stuff you can think of that you need to the USVI first (sans customs hassles) then lash it all to the boat and take with. You may get eyes raised at repair port but many places allow "bonding" - that is if you take out what you bring in you just leave a deposit with customs that you get back when you take said goods away...

How bad off is the USVI? Haven't heard anything from anyone actually on the ground there.

That is within reach (or roughly equivalent distance to the BVI).

[contrail]

Originally Posted by nauticalnovice

Thank you for your insight. It is valued and important information.

> And an American [boat owner] doesn't need a work permit or some such.

Depending on my situation, I might be willing to do a large amount of the work myself. My biggest worry is getting bogged down in the morass of current circumstance. I want to bring as much stuff in as possible (possibly including food), using tools that require as little power as possible and make quick repairs sufficient to get the vessel else where... and then just abandon whatever doesn't fit on the boat, giving it away to those who need it. As the boat owner, I should have the right and ability to make repairs. Where I need outside help is making those repairs quickly and having someone with the ability to qualify what repairs need to be done (and how they should be done) to make the boat seaworthy.

> The Government does not want the BVI to be littered with wrecked boats,

Yeah, I completely get that. That's why I want to get in there, do the work and get the hell out as quickly as possible, doing everyone a service in process.

> Nanny Cay, Virgin Gorda Yacht Harbour, and East End Boat Yard.

I'm sort of looking at going the opposite direction, south of Martinique, St. Lucia down to Grenada. Everything between PR and Dominica is completely trashed. The islands are space close enough (maybe 50km to 75km between islands) that I would feel more comfortable making those voyages with a broken boat. Question is: can I get a mast in/to those locations? It's over 200km to get up to the BVI (but transportation from Tortola to the US Gulf Coast via vessel carrying barges is being arrange in the BVI). It'd be freaking fantastic if I could get up there, perform more permanent repairs on the barge and put a mast one it in the US.

Again, thank you and, if I make it up the BVI, I'll drop you a line.

Antigua was almost unscathed an has good boatyards....busy, right now, but good. I think that you might also have a shot at Guadeloupe.

[rourkeh]

Any boat that has been sitting around since September, open to the elements is going to have SERIOUS water intrusion issues. Think mold, mildew, and delimitation and rot. I am in St Maarten and have seen some of the geniuses that bought these hurricane damaged boats in the yards trying to do repairs. Most of these people have very limited skills and no real idea what they were getting into when they bought their dream wreck. Every one has so far only managed to run up a HUGE yard bill and barely made a dent in any repairs. The value of the boat these people purchased has been exceeded by the cost of their progress so far, and none of the projects I have seen is anywhere near completion. Also you need to be aware that even if you can somehow get what you are describing done for any kind of reasonable price, when you go to sell your boat you HAVE to declare it is a hurricane damaged vessel in the listing. That will take at least 30% off the value at time of sale. People will buy a hurricane damaged submarine but they are going to want a big discount from other non damaged boats of the same type they are comparison shopping. The logistics of repairing a boat in the condition you describe, down here in the Caribbean is almost impossible with the caliber of available workers. The contractors in BVI, St Maarten and elsewhere are hacks at best, and no where near the level of competence required for the specialized work you will require. I was involved in a project on a $1.5 million FP 60' that the factory was paying for to have the bottom peeled and redone in BVI a few years ago. The contractor used the wrong materials and when the boat was hauled in St Maarten 6 months later it was condemned by a surveyor due to the mess they created. I understand the draw of buying a GREAT DEAL and fixing it yourself but there is NO WAY you are going to get it done in this location for an amount of money that makes it viable. NO WAY.
Save yourself the grief and buy a boat that is not a complete mess.
I know this is not what you want to hear but I have a lot of experience in this area, had the resources and money to do what you are thinking about doing and I walked away from the opportunity.

[nauticalnovice]

Originally Posted by contrail

Antigua was almost unscathed an has good boatyards....busy, right now, but good. I think that you might also have a shot at Guadeloupe.

What a difference 50-odd kilometers can make

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iz4NaR35SM

[bvimatelot]

Originally Posted by rourkeh

Any boat that has been sitting around since September, open to the elements is going to have SERIOUS water intrusion issues. Think mold, mildew, and delimitation and rot. I am in St Maarten and have seen some of the geniuses that bought these hurricane damaged boats in the yards trying to do repairs. Most of these people have very limited skills and no real idea what they were getting into when they bought their dream wreck. Every one has so far only managed to run up a HUGE yard bill and barely made a dent in any repairs. The value of the boat these people purchased has been exceeded by the cost of their progress so far, and none of the projects I have seen is anywhere near completion. Also you need to be aware that even if you can somehow get what you are describing done for any kind of reasonable price, when you go to sell your boat you HAVE to declare it is a hurricane damaged vessel in the listing. That will take at least 30% off the value at time of sale. People will buy a hurricane damaged submarine but they are going to want a big discount from other non damaged boats of the same type they are comparison shopping. The logistics of repairing a boat in the condition you describe, down here in the Caribbean is almost impossible with the caliber of available workers. The contractors in BVI, St Maarten and elsewhere are hacks at best, and no where near the level of competence required for the specialized work you will require. I was involved in a project on a $1.5 million FP 60' that the factory was paying for to have the bottom peeled and redone in BVI a few years ago. The contractor used the wrong materials and when the boat was hauled in St Maarten 6 months later it was condemned by a surveyor due to the mess they created. I understand the draw of buying a GREAT DEAL and fixing it yourself but there is NO WAY you are going to get it done in this location for an amount of money that makes it viable. NO WAY.
Save yourself the grief and buy a boat that is not a complete mess.
I know this is not what you want to hear but I have a lot of experience in this area, had the resources and money to do what you are thinking about doing and I walked away from the opportunity.

Although in general, all that you say is accurate, I have to disagree (pretty strongly!) with the rather sweeping statements on the bvi workforce. Most certainly they are NOT all hacks and some of the best fibreglass repair work I have ever seen has been completed on time, on budget and to the surveyors' complete satisfaction. Tony