buying new vs used

[colemj]

Muskoka,

If I remember correctly, you were looking at a Lavazie 40 but were having some issues. Sounds like everything went OK for you on that one. Congrats!

Mark

[maxingout]

I purchased a new Privilege catamaran in 1993 with the specific purpose of making a circumnavigation. The Privilege was well built and very much up to the task. During the first five years of ownership, I didn't spend much money on the boat because everything was in such great shape.

My circumnavigation took eleven years, and during the last six years of the trip, the cost of maintaining and running the yacht went up significantly.

The point is this. If you are going on an extended cruise that will last for years and go for tens of thousands of miles, then a newer sailboat may be a good idea. The five year wear and tear grace period with a new boat may be just enough to get you around the world.

As we completed our circumnavigation, we noticed that many cruisers were well past their five year grace period, and the last quarter of their voyage was complicated by many breakdowns and a need for far more intensive maintenance. Their yachts and been ridden hard for many years, and the yachts were tired.

So when you decide between new and used, you might want to consider what you are going to do with your yacht, and how long your voyage will take.

[The_Bean]

Originally Posted by maxingout

During the first five years of ownership, I didn't spend much money on the boat because everything was in such great shape.

Very good point and very logical advice. Nothing like buying a second hand boat that is just ready for all the maintenance needed... especially when you want to circumnavigate. It could really sour the trip having to pour unnecessary $$$ into the voyage. It could end up costing you more than a new one would have in the first place. Why save a few $... only to spend a whole lot more and have all the aggravation to go with it.

Maintenance is something that needs to be done ALL the time... not only when something breaks. My car is 3 years old and you would think it was new. My Kawasaki ZX9R was 8 years old and it looked like it came off the showroom floor. Our house is about 30 years old... but it looks new. This is one of the main reasons we also bought a new cat. Seriously...things do go wrong, but if it starts giving SERIOUS problems after 5 years... then I would not have been doing my job properly and it would be TOTALLY my fault for not keeping it maintained 100%

[CSY Man]

Aye, been there done that...

Never bought a new boat as that would be way out of range X 3 or 4...

Been buying new cars since 1985 however.
Found that the bargaining power is great for a new vehicle, and so is the lower interest financing.

Example: April 2004 I bought a new Chevy Silverado 1500 pick up truck for $14,500.00 US...The list price was $18,500.00.

2 years later I checked the "Blue Book" used price for the truck and it was $15,000.00.

As for bying a new cruising sail boat, with all the warranties and all the good stuff...Sure, I would if I had just won the Lotto.

$500,000 would buy me a well equipped Pacific Seacraft 44 with all the options and all the warranties..
The salesmen would be running circles around me pizzing in their pants trying to close the deal and convincing me how smart I was to get this brand new tub with all the "safety features" and how happy the wife would be to get the latest in microwave owens and air conditon, etc.

If I only had, say 10% of the above $500,000.00, I would go for a used CSY 33 or a similar well maintained and sea-worthy vessel with plenty of room to live and sail.
I would pay $40K and spend a few extra bucks on upgrades and repairs.

Good plan, unless ya win the lotto and ya can blow a million or a half on some fancy tub.

Not necesarry to go new to go sailing.
Lots of good used boats out there.
The cheaper and older they are, the more elbow-grease it takes to get them going and going sailing.

The water and the islands are the same however. The weather and people ya meet are the same..

The important thing is not yer boat or the size of it...Much more important to just go and do it.
$50K and a good spirit will take ya cruising in comfort and style.

[muskoka]

Originally Posted by colemj

Muskoka,

If I remember correctly, you were looking at a Lavazie 40 but were having some issues. Sounds like everything went OK for you on that one. Congrats!

Mark

Thanks Mark.

We did manage to get everything sorted out - problem with the rudders. But the manufacturer stepped up to the plate and has paid to have the repairs made. The hardest bit was finding a yard for the haul out as cats still aren't that common in HK - anyway, she's scheduled to go into the yard in about 10 days.

So we're very pleased with the boat and the people standing behind it!

Cheers.

[schoonerdog]

From general observation, I would say electronics, sails, canvas, carpets, upholstery and plumbing fittings need to be replaced every 10 years for a cost of around 30k for my particular boat.. But a new boat would cost around 200k more than I paid for my then 5 year old boat so for us it was a no brainer price wise. Now, the equivalent new boat would be more than 250k so the price difference seems to becoming more extreme.

[The_Bean]

Originally Posted by schoonerdog

electronics, sails, canvas, carpets, upholstery and plumbing fittings need to be replaced every 10 years for a cost of around 30k

If you bought the boat new at the outset, spending 30k - 50k after 10 years would be totally acceptable, as the cost is much like having to paint your house, replace the fridge, stove, TV, microwave, car/ cars and all the other things that you would have had to replace on land anyway. It's all relative. The huge benefit of having bought new, is that you would know exactly what your boat has been through and you will also know exactly how everything has been maintained and what needs replacing / attention, which is something you cannot determine when buying used.

When buying used, you have to be a good gambler with a lot of luck on your side to say you got a good deal.
This is why I just had to buy new... because my luck is such that if I were thrown into a barrel full of nipples... I would probably come out sucking my thumb.

[sail2wind]

I don't agree. A new Lagoon 41-44 is about $500,000. A five to seven year old cat is closer to $250,000, that is a lot of repairs and upgrades. If I bought a used 41, I would add a genset.

[muskoka]

I don't agree either.

We bought a 2 1/2 year old boat with 50 hours on the engine & about 18 sailing days on her hulls & rigging. This boat was very lightly used & any competent surveyor can verify the major systems - you don't need to gamble. The price we paid was about $120K less than new.

I reckon major refits will become necessary in 3-4 years on our boat, whilst the new Owner could expect 5-6 trouble-free years. However, in 4 years my saved $120K will have earned $30K in interest (at 6%) so I'll have $150K in the maintenance fund.

Whereas all the new boat Owner has done was spend extra money to defer the same, inevitable maintenance costs by 2 years. And he'll have no maintenance fund waiting!

[The_Bean]

I hear you muskoka... but you were lucky.

A friend of mine, who is an experienced sailor with about 28 years behind him, bought a 3 year old Island Spirit 37 in what appeared to be the same good condition, as he wanted to go sailing. Everything was surveyed, whilst he himself was on board with the surveyor, and all passed the test. A few days after he paid his money across, things started packing up. The starboard engine (which only had about 100 hours on it) died, then the water maker, then the bilge pumps started sticking and a host of other things. He started fixing everything up as it broke down and after 8 months, not having been able to sail anywhere, he really got fed up, cut his losses and he sold it. He had bought it for $164K, spent $83K on it and sold it for $205K.... and it still needed work! He is now building up his cash again and has said he has learned his lesson and will only buy a new one next time.

For peace of mind, I say if you can afford new.... buy new.... unless you know the boat and it's owner.... very well.

[Limpet]

Originally Posted by The_Bean

A few days after he paid his money across, things started packing up. The starboard engine (which only had about 100 hours on it) died, then the water maker, then the bilge pumps started sticking and a host of other things. He started fixing everything up as it broke down and after 8 months, not having been able to sail anywhere, he really got fed up, cut his losses and he sold it. He had bought it for $164K, spent $83K on it

Did your friend make the repairs himself? Based on what he spent, I would guess not. Perhaps it is just me, but I just naturally expect that a cruiser would make all repairs themselves. Otherwise, it will cost a bundle and the cruiser could be helpless should something fail, perhaps something that was repaired, while at sea. Again, maybe its just me, but I would want to do the work myself so that I can continue to become knowledgable about the boat's systems, and learn what tools and parts should be kept on board should a problem arise.

[sail2wind]

Your friend needs a new or better surveyor. I would have sued the surveyor. "A host of other things"? P.S. Fortuna does not have the best rep.

[markpj23]

OK - I admit to having never bought a new boat, well one over 25ft anyway. But having had disastrous results buying new RVs I have to wonder....

What quality / warranty issues arise with the new boat purchase? Seems to me that a production boat is going to have lots of bugs in various systems...

So if you've got to deal with that anyway, why buy new? Let someone else eat the hull depreciation... and use the savings to outfit her the way you like.

[West Coast Cat]

Originally Posted by Limpet

Clearly the bubble in the real estate market popped and housing prices have been falling ever since. Especially out in CA.

Though this is not a real estate site I am compelled to check in, in So. Cal. the market only increased 6% last year and is up the first three months of this year - so the press jumps in saying the market has fallen, yes fallen from the double digit increases the past four / five years. This is good for me because my plan "B" for cruising is to sell my house........ Plan "A" is to sell my business, plan "C" is the lotto

[schoonerdog]

I hate trashing boats, but Island Spirit was known for making new boats with those problems. They went bankrupt and there are now many new boat owners who are stranded with boats that have lot's of problems which would make the 83k look like a pittance. Do research with independent brokers to find out which boats are known for having problems before you buy, doesn't matter new or used.