Autopilot failure on long passage

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by hpeer

You could use a PYPILOT or perhaps a Pelagic setup without the ram.

I use a PYPILOT to drive a CPT wheel.

would you mind describing your setup ? I hate raymarine and their software updates and fast outdating of everything.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Skills deficiency problem.



Provided the hydraulic oil is not contaminated, the most probable problems with hydraulics is generally related to seal failures. Since these are highly standardized, very cheap and widely available a plentiful spares complement can be maintained and the tool kit usually found on any well equipped vessel is sufficient to carry out any repairs.



In contrast mechanical linear drives generally contain proprietary gear boxes and circulating ball screw drives which require manufacturer specific parts.



The electric and electronic parts are common to both systems so neither has the advantage there although those I have observed on hydraulic drives tend to be larger and more industrial.

All I can tell you is both the NAVTEX hydraulic furler coujj on d not be fixed outside the U.K. and the in mast furler had to be returned to Holland. Nobody locally could touch it

I stand by my comments gut electric over hydraulic any time

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

would you mind describing your setup ? I hate raymarine and their software updates and fast outdating of everything.

Pypilot has a vid about setting up/using the CPT wheel pilot.

We use pypilot on our below deck hydraulic AP. It works well and uses very little power. One nice feature w/the pypilot is it shows you the average and immediate power consumption. We use the power consumption statistics in conjunction with the rudder indicator to help adjust our sails for better performance.
The pypilot hardware itself is inexpensive, but is packed w/excellent features (don't judge the equipment due to a low $ amount). We carry a full set of backup controller and basic head, just in case we have an issue.
Based on our experience, it would be hard to go back to a name brand platform when opencpn/oplotter can mix and match other brands to make a better nav. system.

[kipwrite]

We have an electric jeffa autopilot on our '49 sloop, with an entire back up Jeffa unit stored below as a spare. I can swap out a new one in about a half hour. We also have a Hydrovane, which works brilliantly when the boat is balanced under sail.

Have just added a Raymarine ST1000+ tiller pilot for use with the Hydrovane while motoring, which is non-networked. This seems like a toy - will be interested to see if it works as advertised with the Hydrovane motoring. curious if others have experience with a ST1000+/Hydrovane set up on a larger sloop. Carry any spares?

After some autopilot failures offshore and the stress of hand steering, I've come to believe in redundancy.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

would you mind describing your setup ? I hate raymarine and their software updates and fast outdating of everything.

3 pieces
1: PYPILOT CONTROL HEAD
2: PYPILOT CURRENT SOURCE
3: CPT wheel adapter and drive box

You open the CPT and connect the 2 motor wires ti the output of the Current Source.

CPT will not sell just a drive box, you need to find one used.

Pypilot is not really a commercial source. If you need a more well supported system then perhaps a Pelagic Control Head and Current Source. I believe rhar will work also, I have not tested it out. Both provide 2 wire control to a electic motor, similar amperage.

Pypilot is cheap enough to have duplicates.

[RaymondR]

The image illustrates the DIY wheel drive I gradually evolved from a Raytheon ST4000. I had already used the Regal Cookware drum and the auto timing belt on a previous iteration which used the original Raytheon motor and the gears from 2 cheap Chinese battery screw drivers.

The motor, lower left, was a surplus item from an electric bike, the belt drive sprocket I had already manufactured in preparation for a rebuild and I made the large chain sprocket on the boat using scrap aluminium an electric drill and a jig saw.

The build took place in a remote bay on the Northern territory coast after the previous iteration failed. It took about two days.

The whole affair is a good illustration of what can be achieved with a little planning and preparation. However, developing an appropriate skill set is vital.

Pypilot is an extra ordinary effort in it's development of the mechanics, electronics and software of a modern DIY autopilot. It provides the opportunity to develop a good knowledge base on a practical device which combined with the ability to lay in a good range of spares can render one free of the fear of being in the middle of nowhere with a future consisting of endless episodes of hand steering.

[jordanbigel]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

My own view is a modern rate gyro AP outperforms any windvane and is today more reliable as well. The whole reason for wind vanes was power consumption solar has removed this completely.

Hydraulic APs are very very difficult to repair if something gore wrong. Electric linear arms are easy to repair and have proven extremely reliable or easy to service . To repair a hydraulic AP in Las Palmas I had to fly the whole gear to a specialist in Holland as no one locally could touch it. Yet a electric linear drive would ( and was ) easy to repair.

I won’t have hydraulic system in a boat as a result. Electric is more Reliable and far easier to repair.

My hydraulic AP has worked flawlessly for decades with only minimal maintenance. But I agree, they can be difficult to repair, IF you do not carry spares and IF you do not have access to a custom hydraulic hose maker, because usually its the hose where the problem is - I carry a spare hydraulic pump (and a spare electronic brain box for the AP as well).

But, I think you ought to not make blanket statements like this:

The whole reason for wind vanes was power consumption solar has removed this completely.


Different strokes for different boats should be a guiding principle for CF, and when giving advice you should avoid making such all encompassing judgements. For me, and many other monohulls even as big as my boat, having enough solar power is a dream not a reality.

Bottom line, on my boat, we do not have unlimited power and I can't fit more solar panels, so the wind vane remains essential equipment, provides a level of redundancy, and allows us to cut down usage of the AP (which on my boat with a barn-door sized rudder means massive power savings), and reduces wear and tear on the AP (increasing the odds it will be in working order when we really need it).

I do appreciate the ease of use of an electronic AP, believe me, but for me the Windvane is crucial as one prong of a two prong approach to self-steering. I also carry spares for the wind vane of course, and, have had to make repairs at sea (or rather, the Admiral has had to).

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by jordanbigel

My hydraulic AP has worked flawlessly for decades with only minimal maintenance. But I agree, they can be difficult to repair, IF you do not carry spares and IF you do not have access to a custom hydraulic hose maker, because usually its the hose where the problem is - I carry a spare hydraulic pump (and a spare electronic brain box for the AP as well).



But, I think you ought to not make blanket statements like this:



The whole reason for wind vanes was power consumption solar has removed this completely.





Different strokes for different boats should be a guiding principle for CF, and when giving advice you should avoid making such all encompassing judgements. For me, and many other monohulls even as big as my boat, having enough solar power is a dream not a reality.



Bottom line, on my boat, we do not have unlimited power and I can't fit more solar panels, so the wind vane remains essential equipment, provides a level of redundancy, and allows us to cut down usage of the AP (which on my boat with a barn-door sized rudder means massive power savings), and reduces wear and tear on the AP (increasing the odds it will be in working order when we really need it).



I do appreciate the ease of use of an electronic AP, believe me, but for me the Windvane is crucial as one prong of a two prong approach to self-steering. I also carry spares for the wind vane of course, and, have had to make repairs at sea (or rather, the Admiral has had to).

Irrespective the main driver for wind vane was the power of first generation autopilots and there poor performance in certain situation especially down wind.

All this is swept away with solar and modern rate gyros AP

Technology moves on and gets better and as a result wind vanes have largely disappeared

Look at the arc. Equipment stats , virtuously no winvanes in recent years

Modern AP a are just better as a result they are used more.

That’s not to say windvanes have disappeared completely but a walk around Las Palmas marina will show you they are very much in the minority these days.

Modern electronic. aps perform better , are cheaper and solar solves the power issues. Hence they now dominate transoceanic steering

Are there a few windvanrs about sure but they are way way down the priority fit list these days

Again I won’t have hydraulic on a boat in any critical systems. Electric is best for furlong , windlasses , APs etc.

By all means defend old technology but the modern computer controlled AP is infinitely better then a wind vane largely because it has far more processing power and also because it’s receiving far more inputs then a wind vane. It’s more reliable, cheaper , easier to use

It’s no wonder it’s swept the board in recent years.

[JPA Cate]

We really need to remember the OP here has a catamaran. I haven't seen windvanes on a catamaran.

I do agree with jordanbigel and wingless, that for some boats in some circumstances, windvanes have a great deal to offer, and the one Jim built for our previous boat steered us for around 75,000 n. mi. That's a lot of wind-powered steering, and silent, too, none of the gritchy noises of electric autopilots.

Ann

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by ak5609

Hello folks,

just had a discussion with a friend about the importance of our autopilot on our catamaran, and the question occurred, what to do on a transatlantic trip, singlehanded, when the autopilot stops working.

I have had that problem off-shore, several times. I fixed the pilot, but meanwhile you have to do something.

Adjust sails (jib in, main out, reef the main as needed) until the plan is balanced. Lock the rudder. Works on some windward and reaching courses. Sail jib-only. Works downwind. Both are slower. Both of these are best practiced before you need them. I learned these before I had a tiller pilot.

Bungee steering never worked on any cat I have owned.

Drift to rest.

Other than that, spares, obviously.


Failures will be MUCH less common if you balance the boat so that the pilot is not working as hard. We tend to forget that. A small drogue can help in rough weather, not for survival, but to ease the steering load.

[Emmalina]

Thats an AP failure Second one I made was a lot better !

[Night_Sailor]

Learn to sail? There are lots of clever ways to get a boat to self steer--particularly down wind or upwind. Across the wind is tougher.



Wind vane, sail combinations, combinations of lines and bungee cords to your helm and sails, or simple lines with cleats. I've been able to get a boat to self steer with simple lines and cleats for periods of time with occasional adjustment. Perhaps not as ideal as Otto Pilot as extra crew.


It is a bad idea to sail solo. It is exhausting. it's exhausting with two people.


Spares might be a solution, or if you plan to sail solo often, perhaps a second complete assembly ready to engage.

[MicHughV]

I'm a fan of the Monitor windvane in addition to an electric autopilot.

I fashioned three different lenght wind blades to suit wind conditions and wind direction when using it. This helps immeasurably to keep to the Monitor happy.

But the trick is to learn to set up your boat so that it sails straight and true with only a finger on the helm before engaging an autopilot.
This is a process that varies from boat to boat.
I tend to oversheet the sails a bit, so that they don't start luffing when the boat heads up a few degrees.

It takes some experimentation to get it all dialed in right.

I had the electric autopilot fail on me in mid ocean one time. Having nothing else to do, I disassembled it, and sprayed WD40 everywhere and put it back together again.
Voila, much to my surprise, it started working perfectly again.

[hpeer]

I THINK I have read of a wind vane on a catamaran. Not 100% sure.

IF you can make the linkage to the tiller, why not?

You may need to do some creative thinking to get the wind sensor/vane so that it sees clear air. Scanmar once sold a model that worked with cables and you could mount the vane remotely.

It may be more effort than it is worth.

[PUDDLE JUMPER II]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Skills deficiency problem.



Provided the hydraulic oil is not contaminated, the most probable problems with hydraulics is generally related to seal failures. Since these are highly standardized, very cheap and widely available a plentiful spares complement can be maintained and the tool kit usually found on any well equipped vessel is sufficient to carry out any repairs.



In contrast mechanical linear drives generally contain proprietary gear boxes and circulating ball screw drives which require manufacturer specific parts.



The electric and electronic parts are common to both systems so neither has the advantage there although those I have observed on hydraulic drives tend to be larger and more industrial.

Bingo...