Anyone have experience in working with seawind?

[jbinbi]

Was sort of posting in the new seawind model thread, but didn't want it to go OT, so starting a new thread.

I am looking at purchasing an 1160. I have gotten info back that the way the do an order, assuming there is no boat at my dealer is
1. you put down a small deposit, holding your slot
2. You then put down 30% when they start
3. another 20 % at next state
4. another 20 % at next stage
5. final 30% at handover

My question is, how do you get a loan? Most banks will only turn over money when their name is on the title for a tangible item.

Also, if they can't meet their dates, can you cancel? Or can you cancel at any point assuming someone else wants your slot? Is this spec'd in a contract?

thanks.

[Jeannius]

Can't comment on Seawind but the payment schedule is similar to what I had with Privilege. Funds were held in escrow and my bank were happy with the arrangements. This was nearly 20 years ago though so things may have changed.

[sailjumanji]

That's pretty much how our Seawind build went in 2018. There is a contract, with your dealer. If I remember correctly, if you back out at any point, you basically lose what you have paid to-date. It makes for a good deal for someone that wants to step into your shoes at that point, but OTOH they have to accept all of the build and equipment installed at that point.

We got progress reports and pictures every two weeks, I think. When progress was delayed, that of course delayed the payment, as they are based on completion milestones.

We started by selling our Seawind 1000, to have money to get the 1160 Lite started. After that, we paid cash to finish it. They were pretty upfront that the schedule was estimated. Our boat completion was 1-1/2 or 2 months late, I think. Start was maybe a couple of weeks late. The thing I wasnt prepared for was that it took two months exactly to ship from Vietnam to Miami. That's two months of watching that stupid ship move on AIS! It was on schedule until it started making stops in US ports.

[sailjumanji]

Oh, and my contract said that the dealer has the option to extend your time for any payments due, or basically cancel your contract and you lose what you have paid to-date. I think they will work with you, within limits. I think they get cash calls from Seawind on the build. I know some of our calls were "how quick can you wire me money." Seawind didn't make the money requests though until all of the items in each step were done. We had some windows they were waiting on delivery, but the progress moved into the next phase anyway, and they didn't make the cash request because they hadn't completed all of that phase. Although overall they were ahead. If that makes sense.

[Cheechako]

Find an existing boat. Much less risk. I say that having one builder go bankrupt in the middle of my build. many years ago.

[Hodgdon87]

Google the lawsuit Goldman v. SeaWind Grp. Holdings Pty Ltd. and do your due diligence.

[jbinbi]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Find an existing boat. Much less risk. I say that having one builder go bankrupt in the middle of my build. many years ago.

Thanks. no boats available. not a lot of boats built. not worried about that situation, they are in the opposite situation. They have large demand, and are NOT increasing capacity to meet it because if things go down, they don't want to be caught with extra capacity and potentially go under. Frustrating to me as a buyer.

Originally Posted by Hodgdon87

Google the lawsuit Goldman v. SeaWind Grp. Holdings Pty Ltd. and do your due diligence.

Thanks. read that. Whole different company now, as that incident was 13 years ago. They are on hull number 5xx now. Not sure if the same owner and attitude however.

[Wigglygoog]

Boat building is a tough business. However Seawind made a great strategic decision to move their production to Vietnam. They now have a good dependable workforce at reasonable wages. While other builders in Europe were shut down due to Covid, Seawind never missed a beat. I do have experience with Seawind. I think their management is a class act and the owner cares a lot about the quality of his catamarans and his customer’s experience. I own a 1260.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Hodgdon87

Google the lawsuit Goldman v. SeaWind Grp. Holdings Pty Ltd. and do your due diligence.

I'm well familiar with that case, well familiar. It has nothing to do with working with Seawind in the building of a boat, and everything to do with litigious Americans who use lawyers like other people use fishing nets.

[robwrongshoes]

Originally Posted by Hodgdon87

Google the lawsuit Goldman v. SeaWind Grp. Holdings Pty Ltd. and do your due diligence.

Gotta love how Andrew Hodgdon, a senior member of BALANCE CATAMARANS trolls cruisersforum and relies on scare tactics and negative selling.

Andrew, a word of advice-- it's a small community. Sell Balance on its own merit. Just because Berman thinks it's okay to sell on false and misleading information doesn't mean it a wise move for you. You're younger and may need to work elsewhere down the road and people tend to remember these things...

[NaClyDog]

Originally Posted by Factor

I'm well familiar with that case, well familiar. It has nothing to do with working with Seawind in the building of a boat, and everything to do with litigious Americans who use lawyers like other people use fishing nets.

I don't have a horse in this race but the default judgement makes it sound like it's much more than just a litigious american.


https://www.docketbird.com/court-doc...cv-01759-00152

As for damages, the Court finds plaintiffs have established they paid $520,000 to alter egos of Paul Koch, and that they are entitled to prejudgment interest from the date the fraud occurred, which is November 10, 2009. Accordingly, the Court HEREBY GRANTS plaintiffs’ motion for a default judgment against defaulting defendant Paul Koch in the amount of $857,928.94.

As is always the case, I'm sure the truth lies somewhere in between the stories from both parties. That said, this would certainly give me pause before considering to do any business with this company.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by NaClyDog

I don't have a horse in this race but the default judgement makes it sound like it's much more than just a litigious american.


https://www.docketbird.com/court-doc...cv-01759-00152
As is always the case, I'm sure the truth lies somewhere in between the stories from both parties. That said, this would certainly give me pause before considering to do any business with this company.

Paul Koch was never a part of Seawind Catamarans or any of its corporate entities. So yeah, do your due diligence and get the full facts. Oh and BTW I have done business with Paul Koch, I found him to be trustworthy.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by Factor

Paul Koch was never a part of Seawind Catamarans or any of its corporate entities. So yeah, do your due diligence and get the full facts. Oh and BTW I have done business with Paul Koch, I found him to be trustworthy.

It turns out that even really bad people aren't bad 100% of the time. It appears from this case that he didn't have much to say for himself. I'm not sure one good experience that an anonymous person allegedly had with him goes any way toward overcoming the very clear facts of this case which appear to be beyond dispute (hence the summary judgment). There are plenty of people in the world, billions in fact, without nearly $1M judgements against them, why in the world would anyone work with the few who did.

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by Factor

Paul Koch was never a part of Seawind Catamarans or any of its corporate entities. So yeah, do your due diligence and get the full facts. Oh and BTW I have done business with Paul Koch, I found him to be trustworthy.

Yeah, I found the inclusion of Seawind in the lawsuit title a bit strange as well, since Paul Koch at one point owned Corsair Marine, but was never an owner or officer with Seawind. Seems this case is based on a lawsuit regarding a Corsair 51 catamaran that wasn't completed, and Seawind got pulled into it because while it was going on, Richard Ward acquired Corsair Marine. I had heard that the Corsair 51 catamaran was the financial end of Paul Koch's Corsair Marine, and now I understand it more with this being the lawsuit around hull no 1 not being completed. You can Google it to get more info, and more detail than I want to get into here. Funny that not too long ago, there was a post on this forum regarding that same cat being up for sale, and the comparison of it to the Seawind 1600, and how much lower the price was vs a new 1600. My understanding from those in the know is that its not a 1600. Evolution does occur!

I like Richard Ward, a lot. My wife and I had the opportunity to visit with him at a couple of boat shows. He doesn't aspire to be a mass-production catamaran company, nor compete in the charter market with the big three. I said something about Seawind being more performance-oriented, and he corrected me with a list of Aussie cats that were truly performance sailboats. He strives for a balance of performance and comfort. I could have gotten a lot more stuff in the hulls for the same money with another catamaran company, but I wouldn't have been happy if the boat didn't have the ability to sail that this 1160 Lite does, even with mini keels. We raced Corsair trimarans for eleven years, and I wouldn't own a boat that truly doesn't sail well, respond to sail trim, or have the ability to crank out miles going upwind. Every other year, we do a five month cruise from Texas thru the Bahamas and back. In the off seasons, we day sail the boat. This boat is a pleasure to day sail as well.

So there is my experience in dealing with Seawind, for most of the year 2018, as our boat was being built. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again, but OTOH, our Lite really fits us well for the time being.

As far as financial dealings, my contract to have a new Lite built and the payment schedule, delivery, etc., was all above-board. They were actually late in assessing some payments due, because some minor steps in that phase had not been completed (due to a equipment supply issue), although they had moved forward with completing tasks in the next phase. I never felt they were ahead on billing, vs work completion. I've also found them reasonable in dealing with some warranty issues.

[Sand crab]

Thread drift here,
Anybody know anything about that almost new 1160 that was foreclosed on here in the states. I think it was up for sale in Florida for $275K about a year or 2 ago. It went fast.