Advice on ground tackle

[s/v Jedi]

The aluminum Spade has a hollow stock fabricated by welding four aluminum strips together. I’ve seen them ripped open like banana peels after hurricane Ivan.

I don’t think we have the best anchor yet, better will come. Maybe Spade will increase quality of their steel anchor, or Mantus figures it out before Sarca does etc. I had hopes for the Vulcan etc. but see many negatives already even before seeing tests of larger sizes.

[merrydolphin]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

The aluminum Spade has a hollow stock fabricated by welding four aluminum strips together. I’ve seen them ripped open like banana peels after hurricane Ivan.

I don’t think we have the best anchor yet, better will come. Maybe Spade will increase quality of their steel anchor, or Mantus figures it out before Sarca does etc. I had hopes for the Vulcan etc. but see many negatives already even before seeing tests of larger sizes.

Don’t know about aluminum Spades, but the galvanized ones have held up quite well I have used one a lot for about 7 years with just light surface rust, primarily around the tip. I have seen some very old galvanized spades still working well.
One reason that they work so well is that they do have that wedge shaped shank. It really penetrates. The other good feature is the heavy tip weight and no hoop needed to clog and upset or offset the all important tip weight. Now all that being said, I agree that the perfect anchor isn’t out there yet. But the galvanized Spade it the closes that I have found. And yes, I usually will error on the heavier side of the equation regardless of the anchor. I like to sleep!

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by merrydolphin

Don’t know about aluminum Spades, but the galvanized ones have held up quite well I have used one a lot for about 7 years with just light surface rust, primarily around the tip. I have seen some very old galvanized spades still working well.
One reason that they work so well is that they do have that wedge shaped shank. It really penetrates. The other good feature is the heavy tip weight and no hoop needed to clog and upset or offset the all important tip weight. Now all that being said, I agree that the perfect anchor isn’t out there yet. But the galvanized Spade it the closes that I have found. And yes, I usually will error on the heavier side of the equation regardless of the anchor. I like to sleep!

Check out the testing from sv Panope on Youtube (he’s a member here as well). The galvanizing is the worst of all anchors and fails quickly also due to sharp corners that don’t hold galvanize well.

[smj]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Check out the testing from sv Panope on Youtube (he’s a member here as well). The galvanizing is the worst of all anchors and fails quickly also due to sharp corners that don’t hold galvanize well.

No doubt. The spade came in second to the Mantus in the 45lb and under category in Panopes tests, and that was due mainly to the poor galvanizing.
We’ve owned a Spade, Rocna, Manson Supreme and a Mantus and they are all fine anchors that have set and held well. Our favorite is the Mantus as it’s batting 100% so far, but I’m sure we are also biased as it’s the anchor we are currently using.

[SV__Grace]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

The aluminum Spade has a hollow stock fabricated by welding four aluminum strips together. I’ve seen them ripped open like banana peels after hurricane Ivan.

I don’t think we have the best anchor yet, better will come. Maybe Spade will increase quality of their steel anchor, or Mantus figures it out before Sarca does etc. I had hopes for the Vulcan etc. but see many negatives already even before seeing tests of larger sizes.

Jedi, how about the Excel as a candidate for “best anchor yet?”

SV Panope’s tests show Spade and Excel to be the top two performing anchors. Based upon that and Practical Sailor’s tests I traded my Vulcan for an Excel 2 years ago and cruising the PNW full time since then it has proven itself to me to be a great anchor.

[ZITIBOAT]

S/V Jedi seems to be the only one using experience to guide reason in a productive direction.
The bottom determines what shape anchor to use. The windage and tonnage determine how much chain if any and the weight or size of the anchor. As well as what the crew can safely operate in emergency situations.

My experience with a 120 ton 65 foot heavy windage/tall deck-house vessel led to the use of a 44 lb Bruce/Claw (under sized by the recommendations) with only 1/2" dacron rode. No Chain because most mooring was done between coral reef beds. This was the working hook for an unseasoned crew of college students that could easily deploy and retrieve. It held firmly in all bottoms except turtle grass unless a small Danforth was attached to the same rode as a leader for removing the grass path. Destructive as all heck to the environment but occasion required an anchorage set fast on one scary storm.
With advance planning for a major storm a folding Northill was deployed strategically.

The Bruce held firm in Hurricane Andrew even though we could play a tune on the rode that was stretched like a piano wire. Fortunately the Bruce did not break a claw nor the dacron line part; which were both concerns for about 18 hours.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

The aluminum Spade has a hollow stock fabricated by welding four aluminum strips together. I’ve seen them ripped open like banana peels after hurricane Ivan.

I don’t think we have the best anchor yet, better will come. Maybe Spade will increase quality of their steel anchor, or Mantus figures it out before Sarca does etc. I had hopes for the Vulcan etc. but see many negatives already even before seeing tests of larger sizes.

What is then the big downside on the viking anchor from your point of view.
If it's just the weight recommendations again take the biggest that fit??
Especially on light cats where weight is a concern the viking looks like the best compromise,also regarding price. Yes the perfect one is not available...
Have a 20kg Lewmar Delta on a 8.5t Lavezzi 40ft that worked well till now but shows several signs of wear over the years, so looking to replace it before the world circum.
Vikings recommendations would be 10 or 15kg(oversized),would go for the 20.
Also like that Viking needs no swivel (Lewmar Delta does) and I like their bridle solution too.

[merrydolphin]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Check out the testing from sv Panope on Youtube (he’s a member here as well). The galvanizing is the worst of all anchors and fails quickly also due to sharp corners that don’t hold galvanize well.

Thanks, will do that.
His tests were what confirmed the Spade for me. Very thorough. It was his favorite. Maybe things have changed. I have had excellent experience so far. And it fits my bow perfect. Also launches and retrieves very smoothly and always facing the right direction. But will check out the latest. Again thanks for the tip.

Fought with CQR Plows for years. Then when they came out went to the Delta. Have very good luck with them but always went heavy. A Delta 55 for my primary on my K Peterson 44. All chain 3/8 BBB rarely drug over tens of thousands of miles and anchorages. Then when I got my Tartan 37 went to the Spade. Excellent so far. Even a good bit better that the Delta. Sets even faster and will hold on very short scope. The Delta not so much.

[rslifkin]

The SV Panope tests also show the Vulcan, Viking, and a few others quite favorably. Personally, for a non rollbar anchor I'd go for either the Excel or Vulcan based on them both working well and being built better than the Spade.

I've been quite happy with my Vulcan. And it's certainly very solidly built.

[smj]

Originally Posted by merrydolphin

Thanks, will do that.

His tests were what confirmed the Spade for me. Very thorough. It was his favorite. Maybe things have changed. I have had excellent experience so far. And it fits my bow perfect. Also launches and retrieves very smoothly and always facing the right direction. But will check out the latest. Again thanks for the tip.



Fought with CQR Plows for years. Then when they came out went to the Delta. Have very good luck with them but always went heavy. A Delta 55 for my primary on my K Peterson 44. All chain 3/8 BBB rarely drug over tens of thousands of miles and anchorages. Then when I got my Tartan 37 went to the Spade. Excellent so far. Even a good bit better that the Delta. Sets even faster and will hold on very short scope. The Delta not so much.

My experience as well. Started with the CQR....crap. Went with the Delta.....much better than crap. Ended up with the new gens......made the much better than crap look like crap. Never looked back.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by ZITIBOAT

The bottom determines what shape anchor to use. The windage and tonnage determine how much chain if any and the weight or size of the anchor.
With advance planning for a major storm a folding Northill was deployed strategically.

The Bruce held firm in Hurricane Andrew even though we could play a tune on the rode that was stretched like a piano wire.

Quite interesting.
I've a Northill, (~30lbs,) that I've never used, perhaps I'll try it out this summer.
Your comment about "bottom determines shape" is true.
The Bruce was designed to anchor oil rigs in the North Sea.
The original Northill was designed to anchor seaplanes, (lots of windage) in Pacific lagoons.
The Danforth wasn't an "anchor", per se, it was designed to be dropped off of the stern of landing craft that were approaching the beachs, which then used winches to pull themselves back off.
I do believe, (from experience, I think it went halfway to China,)) that if you get a Danforth HT dug-in on the up-slope of a firm sand bottom, (like a landing craft,) there is nothing that will give a greater hold vs weight.

[CaptainRivet]

https://youtu.be/nLAXEvRfQbI
Just the test of the viking 20, performance top 1

[GordMay]

Richard S. Danforth was a civil engineer and inventor, who started his own company, in 1939. He developed the Danforth anchor the same year. The anchor was widely used, during World war II, for anchoring aircraft, pontoon bridges, and LST landing craft, which had been using the more cumbersome Northill anchor, prior to that. .
“Every Ounce Must Count” ➥ https://danforthanchors.com/



Original Brittany, Brittany copy with stock, original Danforth, aluminium Fortress

[ZITIBOAT]

Of growing concern is the less expensive fluke anchors made by Secrest and Attwood that have a slip ring shank. Don't sacrifice safety for cost!


My experience is that they will only hold in the original direction set. The ring rides backwards down the shank when the current or wind changes direction to act as a trip lever for pulling it out of the bottom. Then it is just a underwater kite flowing behind as your vessel drifts away.

[Muaddib1116]

Originally Posted by Izikalvo

I will leave it here, too much talking on a subject already proven, not by armchairs gurus, by facts, use any anchor you wish, my advice, use the anchor size suggested by the manufacturer, we have data collected from many users and from many tests, fair winds and anchor safely.

https://www.vikinganchors.com/data-c...-always-better

Quoting your own company's article as a source... not overly convincing.

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

But why Viking advising you to take the smaller anchor. They cost more and Viking would earn more which is the purpose of a company?

I've wondered about this since Izikalvo first started making this argument a couple years ago to market his anchors, especially after Steve on Panope tested the Viking against similar sized anchors and it did really well. My only conclusion is that he sees a relatively saturated market, and given the visible similarities between his Viking and the Mantus M1 (especially when he first introduced the Viking, it seemed like a straight clone, until you looked closer), that he is trying to disrupt the market and differentiate his brand by pushing a message about smaller, lighter anchors.

If you've watched as many of Steve's anchor testing videos as I have, it becomes very clear that larger, heavier anchors of the same design perform better than their smaller counterparts in any given seabed. Yes, a smaller very good design can perform better than a large bad design, as Steve has shown upon occasion. I mean, that's the entire point of searching for the best anchor, right? If you can find an anchor that outperforms all others for the weight, then you get that anchor in the same weight as your old one, then you have a much better anchor. Why would you want to bottleneck your ground tackle by a performance standard, rather than a weight/size standard? Get the best anchor you can find, in the biggest size you can handle.

The argument that you can't set an anchor too large for your boat is pretty much nonsense. The only legitimate issue is, as Jedi said, having a fluke remain above the seabed and catching the rode on a wind shift. In that case, I would argue that you should probably reduce anchor size, or use a design that has less of a chance of catching anything, like a non-rollbar modern design.