Advantages and disadvantages of cats for solo sailing

[Fore and Aft]

Srah I think you underestimate how good a proper sized bow thruster can be.
I see you like to sail solo so what about maintenance? There is a lot more gel coat to polish and not to mention two engines etc.
Still if I had the money a cat would definitely be nice mainly because they are so family friendly.
Cheers

[Tornadosailing]

I single hand my FP from time to time, and docking has never been a problem. The wind has never given me as much trouble as the current, and the current is predictable. Like anything else, it's practice. Helm position on my boat isn't ideal for single hand docking, but it's not as bad as a Lagoon full flybridge either. I would imagine a Catana with the dual stern helm positions would be great for docking, but then you're very exposed at the helm. It's all a trade off.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Tornadosailing

I single hand my FP from time to time, and docking has never been a problem. The wind has never given me as much trouble as the current, and the current is predictable. Like anything else, it's practice. Helm position on my boat isn't ideal for single hand docking, but it's not as bad as a Lagoon full flybridge either. I would imagine a Catana with the dual stern helm positions would be great for docking, but then you're very exposed at the helm. It's all a trade off.

The thing about many aft helmed cats is that the vis to the diagonally oppossite bow is usually poor and typically only one helm has engine controls (thats fixable, but the typical install only has one helm w engine controls).

Ive not run Catanas, but have run other dual aft helm boats like the Nautitech 44...it has both of those issues plus the engine controls were mounted very low on the helm column...you needed long arms like a chimp to not be totally bent over the wheel when docking. I had to position a crew member on the opposite bow (of which I had zero vis) just to mark its location for me.

Looks cool in the brochures though!

Remote wireless engine controls would be very handy on bigger cats as there is just so much square footage to be aware of...then you could just move to where you needed to be.

[catsketcher]

I don't dock too much but it is not this that I like singlehanding cats for.

1- putting up extras - I fly the kite or screecher and get them up and down on my own no worries. No pole, no large angle of roll, huge area to drop kite down onto. Bear away under autopilot slowly, walk forward, drop extras when in shade of main.
2- no heel - I find heel tiring. So a cat keeps me more alert
3- nice cabin design - our cat is like a Seawind in some ways so I can see forward and aft when "off watch". This allows me to gets some semi down time without losing track of how the boat is going.
4 - faster - for day sails I can do more miles and get in before dark.
5 - I can cross bars that mono sailors are afraid to - get the anchor down and sleep some more.
6 - get in creeks and sand flats - I get better sleep if I can lie on a sand flat at low tide up a small creek. It gets me away from some rolly anchorages.
7 - less roll at anchor - even if I have to stay in a rolly spot we roll much less in a swell that wraps around a headland. Better sleep again
8 - if I do end up on the sand I can get her off myself - I ended up on a sandbar in a gale in the Gold Coast. Ran out 100m of nylon and the kedge and pulled the boat off as the gale eased.
9 - staying on board - if you do clip on when on your mono hull and you fall overboard when singlehanded - what do you do then? At least on a cat I have a good chance to pull myself up the very low transom steps (I have hung on to a rope at over ten knots to test it and it can be done. My harness is clipped onto a jackstay that runs around the whole boat) But I doubt many monos have the easy access transoms cats do when in passage mode.

Get a nice, lightish cat that keeps the loads down to a point you can manage. Then it is easily singlehandable. As for docking - I often take our cat to a local jetty to pick up people or wait for friends. I usually go in stern first, I can see the sterns really well and then walk down to the transom loop a stern line over a cleat and power slowly to bring the boat parallel to the jetty. So easy and safe - much better than bow in. Again the low sterns are a godsend.

Also - a cat is a bit of a party boat - so after you singlehand wherever you want, you can invite people over to your large cockpit for drinks.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by catsketcher

I don't dock too much but it is not this that I like singlehanding cats for.

1- putting up extras - I fly the kite or screecher and get them up and down on my own no worries. No pole, no large angle of roll, huge area to drop kite down onto. Bear away under autopilot slowly, walk forward, drop extras when in shade of main.
2- no heel - I find heel tiring. So a cat keeps me more alert
3- nice cabin design - our cat is like a Seawind in some ways so I can see forward and aft when "off watch". This allows me to gets some semi down time without losing track of how the boat is going.
4 - faster - for day sails I can do more miles and get in before dark.
5 - I can cross bars that mono sailors are afraid to - get the anchor down and sleep some more.
6 - get in creeks and sand flats - I get better sleep if I can lie on a sand flat at low tide up a small creek. It gets me away from some rolly anchorages.
7 - less roll at anchor - even if I have to stay in a rolly spot we roll much less in a swell that wraps around a headland. Better sleep again
8 - if I do end up on the sand I can get her off myself - I ended up on a sandbar in a gale in the Gold Coast. Ran out 100m of nylon and the kedge and pulled the boat off as the gale eased.
9 - staying on board - if you do clip on when on your mono hull and you fall overboard when singlehanded - what do you do then? At least on a cat I have a good chance to pull myself up the very low transom steps (I have hung on to a rope at over ten knots to test it and it can be done. My harness is clipped onto a jackstay that runs around the whole boat) But I doubt many monos have the easy access transoms cats do when in passage mode.

Get a nice, lightish cat that keeps the loads down to a point you can manage. Then it is easily singlehandable. As for docking - I often take our cat to a local jetty to pick up people or wait for friends. I usually go in stern first, I can see the sterns really well and then walk down to the transom loop a stern line over a cleat and power slowly to bring the boat parallel to the jetty. So easy and safe - much better than bow in. Again the low sterns are a godsend.

Also - a cat is a bit of a party boat - so after you singlehand wherever you want, you can invite people over to your large cockpit for drinks.

10. No sailing at anchor (on most designs)

....

[Cpt Mark]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

10. No sailing at anchor (on most designs)

....

+1 for above quote.

I've had both and currently have a Cat, IPY Packet Cat 35. Plenty large for me and if I choose additional people. I solo and can handle the boat just fine. BTW, I'm also disabled. Currently on the Columbia River where the current can be downright vicious , weird winds and 2 boats to a berth. When the river is raging I always have help to get back into my slip because of the neighbor boat in our slip. This current is only a couple months a year usually and all other times I singlehand coming in.

I'm bringing all lines back into the cockpit. Lines are long so they can reach the electric windlass which is my best friend. My plan is to never have to go forward except to launch the spinnaker which would mean I'm in pretty benign conditions.

Being disabled with mobility issues I love the wide, flat decks of my boat. A lot of cats have curved, sexy, outer edges which is just a slip and fall waiting to happen to anyone. I go sailing on 40' mono's for fun and am amazed how little room there is to maneuver outside the cockpit. Sold my 40' mono years ago and forgot about that.

Cat's really suck with short, choppy, beam on seas. Ask me how I know that one. But as with all boats, cars, airplanes whatever, it's about tradeoffs. You can have 3 out of 4 things. Which 3 are important to you?

It has been stated that the average cruiser spends 90% of their time at anchor which makes sense. Cats rule as a floating home at anchor.

Going back to docking. I have a sucky, tricky situation and a LOT of experience maneuvering in tight quarters with 2 engines (used to Captain tugs/mud/derrick barges into marinas for dredging.) Like any boat you have to be looking/evaluating what is going on and recognize when it's time to abort before you have to. There are many times when it didn't work out and I backed out into the fairway and set up again and this was true on mono's as well.

[EmeraldCoastSailor]

You have raised the exact issue I have been struggling with for a while. I want to move to a cat to get my wife out more often but I never want to depend on assistance to get out on the water. I sail alone frequently and need a boat I can run 100% solo, and docking is the most concerning aspect IMHO as I daysail frequently. I narrowed my cat consideration to only cats with helms low so that I can get a line connected without being far from engine controls. Most cats have helm stations too high for my comfort. Seawind seems to have the best setup but there are others as long as you stay small. The Nautitech 40 is another good example but its mast is too tall for me. I talked to the guy that runs Maine Cat at the Annapolis boat show about my concerns and he almost laughed me off. Was really disappointed that he didn't offer any advice based on experience. Maybe he was tired. All other cat manufacturers at the boat shows seemed to understand my concern so I think it is a valid consideration. I'd be curious what you determine.

[belizesailor]

Even on a bigger cat with a not so great helm position getting off the dock, in most circumstances, is easy (excluding unusual circumstances). Getting on the dock can be more of a challenge, but if you are coming and going from the same dock most of the time then you can set up lines/fenders/marks to deal with that...not much different than you would w a monohull. Depending on marina, dock crew may be available to assist. Once a single spring line is secured you are set...all the rest can be done under power single handed.

[tomfl]

Just my two cents.

I took my Seawind 1000 out for a day sail leaving my ball at BKH. Left fairly early and when I returned about 4:00PM it was after a front came through and the wind was 20+ and slowly quartering. I almost always am solo and this was no exception. Had no problem getting the ball upwind, slowly approaching and picking up the ball. Headed to the dock for a shower and the nightly BS session at the tiki hut. Someone mentioned how I did a good job picking up the ball in 20 knots. Then someone else mentioned I might not be able to do it in 30 knots; and someone else chimed in I definitely could not do it in 50 knots and 3-4 foot chop. I was forced to reply I definitely could not do it in 200 knots and 20 foot waves.

The point is no mater what boat you have if you are hit with a sudden gust or a tricky current no matter how well the boat is set up or how much skill you have you will not be able to dock, pick up a ball, whatever.

That being said an open design like a Seawind/Maincat/Manta/others with twin steering stations and screws close to amidship where you have set up the lines well before approaching the dock should improve the chances of successful docking. On the other hand a boat with a flying bridge and more limited visibility will be harder to dock. Not to say the condomarans with a flying bridge are impossible to dock and I have seen some guys make it look easy.

Bottom line is for me the Seawind style setup seems like cheating to me compared to how hard it is to dock some boat. YMMV

[sailingchiro]

I will admit, docking a cat can make the skipper look cool until a engine coughs. Then it is pucker factor.
I have put a cat within inches fore and aft of other vessels. Places I could never get a monohull into with out dock hands and hands on deck. But when that engine dies, the people come out to watch the fool banging his boat around the marina.
Both times, fuel filter.
All of should be humbled by our boats.

[yeloya]

I have done quite a bit of single hand sailing with mono and cat. Cats are much easier;
-no or much less risk of MOB,
-manouevring is much easier (cats with with flybridge is an exception and it's a nightmare..)
-the boats where you can reef / unreef without visiting the mast foot are much easier
-if you have electrical genoa winches or self tacking gib, it's even easier.
-cats have another advantage, even if you go to saloon for coffee, beer or whatever, you don't lose the sight, you can still see around.


Cheers


Yeloya

[Cpt Mark]

Originally Posted by sailingchiro

I will admit, docking a cat can make the skipper look cool until a engine coughs. Then it is pucker factor.
I have put a cat within inches fore and aft of other vessels. Places I could never get a monohull into with out dock hands and hands on deck. But when that engine dies, the people come out to watch the fool banging his boat around the marina.
Both times, fuel filter.
All of should be humbled by our boats.

There are many factors to docking besides engine(s), experience, training, there are also winds currents and tides to be dealt with and the various things you might run into or foul your prop(s) on.

Going into Pier 39 in SF with Adventure Cat (55') it is a very tight entrance with vicious currents depending on the tide. Coming in at the worst possible time I lost 1 engine. Owner who is also a Captain and had many years on that boat couldn't believe I went in without an issue and then docked with one engine in tight quarters. That was all training having captained tugs etc inside marinas.

On my cat I lost all steering ( crab pot line caught in rudder. Note to self. Check all control movement BEFORE uniting the lines to depart) once and one of the engines several times coming up the coast in marinas. It can be a big deal but rarely is. Cats will turn to one side easily and the other side not. Figure out which is the easy side and back and fill and they go right in much easier than a mono because all the thrust is way off center. It might be counterintuitive but is a learned skill worth practicing.

If you really want to learn how to use 2 engines, drop a mooring ball, flag whatever in the water. Still water is best, rivers are impossible. Move up to where you can see the target and then moving only engine controls spin the boat in a full circle around the target always keeping the target with the bow always pointed directly at the target. Again, 1 direction is easier than the others. When you can do this you will truly understand how to drive twin screws.

I had a harbormaster guide me into the side tie for the night. Threading our way through the mooring field he showed me my spot. I had 3' total to put a single screw trawler into. Of course there was a restaurant above and everyone came out to watch the impending crash. The wind was blowing onto the dock so using back and fill all I had to do was keep the boat parallel to the dock and in the correct fore/aft position which crew provided by hand signals. Easy peasy. Take your time and think about what will help or hinder your intended maneuver.

Regarding pucker factor. Yep, it's there still, I just don't pay attention to it. When I was learning to captain tugs/barges etc inside marina fairways with all the boats still there I was taught by my training Captain to always wear dark sunglasses. Why is that? he explained the derrick barge operators get bored and position the barges for maximum difficulty to watch the show. We described out job a 5 minutes of sheer terror followed by 3 hours of sheer boredom. Raining, dark, nasty, sunglasses on. Never let the derrick operators see the fear in your eyes!

[barnakiel]

The only difference I have noticed is that when you dock, on a cat it is so much more difficult to control what is going on on 'the other side' of the boat. Some recent cats have the driver's seat at the very top of the console above the roof. Ugly like a pig but sure improves visibility in all directions.


Cheers,
b.

[Sos]

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

T
If you really want to learn how to use 2 engines, drop a mooring ball, flag whatever in the water. Still water is best, rivers are impossible. Move up to where you can see the target and then moving only engine controls spin the boat in a full circle around the target always keeping the target with the bow always pointed directly at the target. Again, 1 direction is easier than the others. When you can do this you will truly understand how to drive twin screws.

This is interesting, whilst I can spin and steer with twin screws how do you do this

[LeeV]

Center your wheel (rudders), and lock or tie it in place. Do not touch.
Put one engine in forward and the other in reverse (equal amounts depending on wind and currents). She’ll spin within her beam.