When is a Sailboat too old to purchase?

[Wanton]

Originally Posted by Tor271

I am a longtime boater, but finally decided to make the shift to sailing! I am looking at something in the 25-27 foot range. The model that has caught my eye is the Nonsuch 26 Classic. My concern is that it is a 1985.

When buying and selling used motor boats in the past, most are 5-20 years old, and after that mostly on their way out. But, it seems for sailboats, 20, 30 and even 40 year old boats are common and still hold substantial value.

What is the difference? And, am I safe buying a 35 year old boat - with new many upgrades to equipment - will I still be able to retain some value if I want to sell in 5 or 10 years?

Thanks for your thoughts on question - and my possible new purchase.

I read some of this thread last night, when really I should have been asleep, as a result I am not sure if anyone has actually answered this question. There is a marked difference between the use of motor boat and a sailboat. It is normal to observe motor boats beat the waves as they often jump over waves onto oncoming waves. Each crash of a wave on the bow causes enormous flexing of the whole motor boat from bow to stern, as the bow is pushed back by the force of the oncoming seas and the stern is pushed forward by the boat's engine, often of several hundred horsepower. This constant flexing has a toll on the fiberglass and a motor boat's life really is cut very short because of this constant flexing. So if you are looking at a motor boat after say 10 years of use (abuse) and compare it with a similar aged yacht, the fiberglass fatigue in a motor boat's structure will be quite significant in the hull compared to that of a sailing yacht.

The hull shape of a motor boat is usually called a plaining hull. This shape enable the motor boat to be lifted above the water by its powerful engine and it can virtually skip on top of the water from wave to wave.

The shape of a 30 to 40 year old yacht is what is called displacement shape. The yacht does not and cannot be made to jump over one wave and the next, it literally moves through the water. So it is displacing the water rather than skipping or crashing over it. In addition many of the older fiberglass yachts where manufactured during the early days of fiberglass manufacture. The early boat builders really did not know the resilience of fiberglass so they applied coat after coat of fiber that resulted in a much heavier (thicker) hull than many of the modern manufactured yachts. Someone above mentioned that older yachts are far more sturdy than the flimsy stuff that is churned out now. That is very very true.

So don't overlook an older vintage yacht. As long as it has been well maintained you'll only be up for any upgrades of electronics other items that naturally are subject to wear and tear. That is why yachts seem to keep their prices.

[albatross1]

Originally Posted by Tor271

I am a longtime boater, but finally decided to make the shift to sailing! I am looking at something in the 25-27 foot range. The model that has caught my eye is the Nonsuch 26 Classic. My concern is that it is a 1985.

When buying and selling used motor boats in the past, most are 5-20 years old, and after that mostly on their way out. But, it seems for sailboats, 20, 30 and even 40 year old boats are common and still hold substantial value.

What is the difference? And, am I safe buying a 35 year old boat - with new many upgrades to equipment - will I still be able to retain some value if I want to sell in 5 or 10 years?

Thanks for your thoughts on question - and my possible new purchase.

I purchased a 1987 Nonsuch 26 Ultra [a superior layout to the Classic IMHO] in 1997 and sailed her until 2012, including a 1500mile coastal jaunt from San Francisco to La Paz Mexico. I sold her to a good friend and bought a 44 foot cutter to cross oceans and explore the south Pacific, which I did, and sold that boat in Australia 14 months ago. Now I'm coming back to the Nonsuch as a partner and find her to be in nearly as good shape and reliable as when i sold her 8 years ago. The original Westerbeke diesel with 1600 hours runs like a top, doesn't leak oil or water, and moves her at 6.5 kts in flat water at 2200 rpm. Sailing the wishbone cat rig is simplicity itself and she's very forgiving. No deck leaks. I can't say enough good things about build quality and sailing characteristics. If she's a fresh water boat, that's an even bigger plus. good luck

[Nomad57]

Just a couple thoughts on the Nonsuch:


1. The double wishbone boom is very heavy. You don't want to get hit by it. An accidental gybe can be a real "experience"


2. The weather helm in the steering is "substantial". (At least on the one I spent a week on, (a friend's boat)).



Nomad57

[PerfectPirate]

What to say about good old boats? The Canadian boat builders of the 70's were boat-builders first and businessmen second. As such, they tended to take an uncompromising stand on quality and durability, which is why their boats are still around and the companies are not. Hinterhoeller was the production manager for C&C before he left to re-establish his own boat-building company. For the past 16 years, I have been sailing and racing a 1980 C&C 27 which is just as solid as the day it left the factory. It has, of course, been upgraded with modern electronics, new wiring and new sails, but the core boat is original and rock solid.


When my wife and I recently decided to upsize, I spent a lot of time evaluating different boats to determine which would best suit our needs and cruising goals, especially as we want to continue sailing well into our old age. I did not limit the search to any given period or manufacturer and my price range was fairly elastic. While I truly appreciated the Nonsuch 30's, my wife wanted a more classic sloop rig. We finally settled on the Ontario 32's, which were built from 1975 to 1986. I looked at a number of them, and researched even more. Most of the boats that I looked at were still quite solid, but many of them had been, in my opinion, badly updated by previous owners. This made them unappealing because I felt that there was too much to undo and that the basic structures of the deck and cabin may have been compromised. I finally found a 1975 boat whose hull, deck and rig are all rock solid, equipped like she had just left the builder's yard. No moisture anywhere in the deck core and the hull is solid fiberglass, which I have measured in some spots to be 1-1/2 inches thick. The original Yanmar engine was taken out and completely rebuilt a few years ago and has only been lightly used since then. I will probably spend close to the purchase price in rewiring, re-upholstering, re-rigging, replacing electronics and getting new sails. But I will then have a boat in which I will have complete faith for at least another 25 years, at a fraction of the cost of a new, or almost-new, boat. The previous owners bought a boat which is 40 years younger, at a cost which I estimate to be 2-1/2 times my eventual purchase and refit cost. And he remarked to me that his new boat does not sail anywhere near as well as the one which I bought from him.


So, back to your issue on buying the Nonsuch 26. If she surveys well and is inline with your needs, the age would not stop me from buying her. The Nonsuch line of boats have held on to their value even better than other reputable boats of that vintage, a testimony to their quality, durability and exceptional design. We have a couple of guys in our club in their mid-eighties who bring their Nonsuch 30 out to the course every club race night and make the rest of us look like fools. They earn a flag every year and the boat still looks pristine.

[Wanton]

Originally Posted by Nomad57

Just a couple thoughts on the Nonsuch:


1. The double wishbone boom is very heavy. You don't want to get hit by it. An accidental gybe can be a real "experience"


2. The weather helm in the steering is "substantial". (At least on the one I spent a week on, (a friend's boat)).



Nomad57

Weather helm may be caused by poorly balanced or out of line rudder and/or poor sail configuration or set. My boat has zero weather helm. I have sailed on sister boats that had quite heavy weather helm. It was caused by poor rudder configuration. Once that was fixed the boat sailed as well as mine. although not as fast..

[Joefiss]

This one has been completely restored. It has taken everything Lake Ontario can throw at it. https://www.navypointyachtsales.com/...-Sail/O%27Day/

[Mickeyrouse]

Originally Posted by PerfectPirate

What to say about good old boats? The Canadian boat builders of the 70's were boat-builders first and businessmen second. As such, they tended to take an uncompromising stand.

Amen to that. I bought a 70’s Whitby Alberg 30 in 1988 because a friend sailed his around the world. I sailed her for ten years, and probably would be yet had my wife and I not decided to get serious about cruising ourselves and buy our present Bermuda 40.