What to buy? 36ft Cruiser / North America

[Scout 30]

[QUOTE=hamburking;2344759]As the Canadian dollar continues its downward spiral, our boats are getting cheaper and cheaper.


Another boat that may interest you is the Niagara 35. These are well known boats that have crossed oceans. Here's one near Toronto: 1980 Niagara 35 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

That Niagara looks like a great deal.

[FutureStories]

I've got a 1976 37' Gulfstar coming on the market Monday. It's got a custom cabin where the pilot berths were made to be shelves and cabinets. Tons of headroom throughout (I think 6'3"+) draws less than 5' we'll setup for easy single hand. Asking $25k, negotiable.

Ready to sail, no leaks, brand new battery bank, enough tankage to make a ocean crossing. Located in Maryland just south of Annapolis.

[FutureStories]

[_andi_]

Thanks for all the awesome advice!

Yes, the boat is supposed to go offshore, I should have mentioned that, sorry.

And many thanks for pointing out boats which are actually for sale at the moment! Sadly I'll need something in between 2-16 months before I can actually buy one (getting rid of my stuff here, deciding whether to safe money for some more time, ...). So don't be upset if I don't email you about your boat anytime soon.

I guess I should overthink at least the steering requirement, seems almost every boat in the area seems to come with a wheel and a spade rudder.

I despise wheels for not having the feedback and it's quite handy to tack with your legs while handling the jib at the same time. Hmm. More tacking with the autopilot..

The strong rudder is more a safety concern which could me mitigated with carrying at least the materials to build a rudder in case the original one goes AWAL. And some strategy to cover the gaping hole which probably will be in the boat if the rudder goes...

[Sandero]

You need to get up close and personal with the top candidates... Listings and prices don't reveal what a very close look would.

[hamburking]

I think the Pearson 35 meets all your requirements...and more (shallow draft)...while coming in at or under budget.

Unfortunately, they were built in the USA, so rarely are for sale on the Canadian side. Still though, they are a very good boat for the money:

NO RESERVE! 1981 35' Pearson Classic Sailboat Best Value Boat for Fall Sailing! | eBay

Pearson P35 shoal draft sailboat | eBay

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by _andi_

I despise wheels for not having the feedback and it's quite handy to tack with your legs while handling the jib at the same time. Hmm. More tacking with the autopilot..

I also prefer tiller steering on a big boat. In addition to the reasons you mention, its a much simpler/cheaper install for autohelm. I favour simple systems...less to buy, less to break, less to fix.

[John_Trusty]

Originally Posted by hamburking

... Although this is a global forum, there seem to be plenty of members on the great lakes...it could have something to do with our crappy frozen winters.

A bit of local knowledge that you may not have is about the Great Lakes boats. Our boats only get half a year sailing annually, and they are stored on the hard for the winter, often indoors or under canvas. This means that their used age is essentially half of a southern boat and without exposure to the harsher salt environment. This comes with a couple of caveats: (1) just because it's on the Great Lakes now doesn't mean it was always here despite what the posting says, and (2) the design, materials, and electronics are still that old.

Everything in the Great Lakes is coastal cruising, so most people do not go for Water boats">blue water boats in here, except some dreamers. Some examples of well found coastal cruisers are C&C and Island Packet (some argue this is trying to be a blue water production boat). I don't think you'll touch one of these over 9 meters for anywhere near double $30 K. Perhaps a little more savings prior to travel?

[flyingfin]

Don't buy a boat over 20 years old, unless you are ready to spend money on engines and standing rigging
My opinion, the best boats for Caribbean and Coastal cruisings are:
1. Island Packet
2. Caliber
3. Tartan

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by John_Trusty

Our boats only get half a year sailing annually, and they are stored on the hard for the winter, often indoors or under canvas.

Half a year...I Wish!

I'll agree that most boats are IN THE WATER for 6 months a year, but actually sailing?....more like 3 months a year. Sadly, most of the boats around here just sit at the dock 99% of the time. I swear there are boats at my marina that never leave the dock.

Personally, my boats have always launched in May, at the whim/schedule of the marina. And since I have kids, I would haul-out in September. Although it can be nice weather in the fall, it is usually windy, rainy, and cold. And with the kids in school, its difficult to get out at all. That is a short season. I considered the season a success if I spent 20 nights aboard. You really do have to be crazy to take on all the work and expense of boat ownership around here. If you look at the numbers...it would be cheaper to stay at a luxury hotel those 20 nights each summer than to own a boat. Whenever my numbers dropped below 10, I sold the boat. Just not worth it.

[TrentePieds]

A blanket "don't buy anything over 20 years old" has little validity. It is NOT the age of a boat that is important, but its present condition.

To wit: TrentePieds is a 1973 design, launched in 1983. Frozen snot hull is good as new. The previous owner was obviously EXTREMELY weak on the fundamental concepts of what a cruising boat needs to be and needs to have. He spent five and thirty grand on "improvements", all of which "missed the mark" and made the boat LESS suitable for cruising that she had been theretofore!

He wound up GIVING the boat away, against a receipt for taxation purposes, to a charitable organization that sells such "donations" to the likes of me and uses the proceeds to train HANDICAPPED people to sail specially designed and fitted small boats.

Instead of fitting TrentePieds with mast roller furling, and other such gee-gaws he must have read about in "the yachting press", he shoulda re-engined her. The Vetus/Mitsubishi was obviously very tired. But because he blew it when he decided at retirement age to run away to sea and spent money on "fashionable" things he DIDN'T need, rather than on essentials he DID need, MyBeloved and I were able to pick up the boat so cheap that AFTER installing a brand new, straight outta the box, Beta diesel we are STILL well away. WE are now the ones that will benefit from a brand new standing rig and brand new sails. And while I may not, TrentePieds will live to be a hundred!

So Andi - if you are still here - like I said, local knowledge and friends on the waterfront can save you a lotta scratch!

TrentePieds

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by _andi_

I’m toying with the idea of buying a boat in canada, the us or mexico. Being from germany I have no clue about the makes and models in that market but I would love to dig into that. I’d really appreciate if you could point me to some models which are renowned for being stout cruising vessels as a starting point.

Here is what I’m looking for:

31ft-36ft (ish) Cruiser

• Monohull, GRP or Steel. (Would love aluminum but too pricy)
• Sloop or Cutter Rig, preferably simple rig
• Strong rudder construction: skeg or stronger
• No known tendencies to loose keels (like some bavaria's for example) or other devastating design flaws.
• Headroom for a 187cm / 6ft 2in Person
• Tiller steering (or easily removeable wheel)
• 70th or 80th model, the era where stuff was build to last. Anything newer is probably too expensive as well.
• Able to claw off a lee shore under sail. I’m willing to give up speed and windward performance for space but this is also a safety thing.
• Good for single handing (I know this is somewhat about personal preference and modding but I’d like to mention it anyways).
• Budget is sort of flexible, let’s say 30k USD as a ballpark figure. I’d prefer spending some time fixing things instead of saving money for another year.

Thanks a lot!

Andi

Howdy Andi.

I read your requirements or preferences.
In your Price range (Asking Price $30K), and given you don't know where you want to locate the boat yet, I suggest the following:

1. Catalina 30 (from $10K to $22K - $25K)
Why? Because it is a very popular design/model and there are MANY of them located all over the USA. There are always many for sale. So, you would be able to pick and choose which one is best condition and equipped for you when you are ready to purchase. You will find the prices very competitive because there are so many. it is a very popular boat, there is a large owners base so you can get advice and tips and such about the boats. Because there are so many, I would look at the boats that have the best or more recent upgrades like a bimini and dodger and tender and possibly electronics.

IF you are going to sell the boat in a few years (example 2) you will be faced with the same market, meaning you then have a boat which is common, popular, and competitively priced. I would suspect you would not lose much, if you pick a good one and add something to it. I would add some toys or nice "comfort" features to it, use the boat for a few years, then sell it with those added "extras" and try not to lose too much (hopefully). Use the better condition and extras to appeal to th next buyer.

It is a boat that you could single hand or take two couples. While it may not be advertised as a "blue water boat" or "heavy" I think it would be suitable for coastal cruising and going to Bahamas, or Caribbean or Mexico, etc.

You mentioned you want a skeg rudder. I would not worry about that so much. I think the CONDITION of the boat (rig, sails, and rudder) are more important than the design of the rudder, when it comes to safety. I would prefer an excellent condition spade rudder and steering gear over a poor condition skeg rudder.

I have seen at least one of these with a tiller.
I have seen a few with newer diesel engines (about 100 hours or less on them).

There are probably 100 or more for sale now in the USA.
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...rtByPriceAsc|0


2. Since you like a tiller. I saw a Beneteau First 342 (I think that was the number) listed for about $25K too. It had a nice interior and tiller steering (I also like). Also on Yachtworld now. Unfortunately, there are not as many at that price point. So, your choice would be limited.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Andi,
To give you an idea of what you could find with some searching, here is a very well equipped Catalina 30 that has an almost new Diesel engine (60 hours) with nice interior and nice cockpit and several other nice things.

Asking Price = $9,999
Location Florida

1979 Catalina 30 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

[_andi_]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

So Andi - if you are still here - like I said, local knowledge and friends on the waterfront can save you a lotta scratch!

I'm still here, don't worry. Just preparing for another month of 50ish hour working weeks, so I'll probably be slower in replying. And it will take some time to dig into the different suggestions.

I know that folks on the waterfront are the best resource there is and since I'm pretty handy with stuff it's quite easy to become part of that pool. Like last season: lent a tool here, fixed some electronics there and one day a guy states that my boat lacks a windvane and if I'm interested in one. Didn't fit my boat, bushing shot, but 50 bucks is an offer I can't decline. Another guy in another harbor build me some adapter blocks, the helpful guy at a shop let me dig through his "old bushings" box, I fabricobbled some stuff, ... Found some guy over the interwebs who still sells the bushings and upside-down conversion kits (so the vane also works downwind). So yeah, after all I'm into the project with around 500 bucks and some work hours so one might argue that it would have been easier to just put in the hours at my job and get a shiny new vane. But I prefer the other way, I learn new stuff, get to know new people and rely on my skills rather than my wallet. So if something breaks at sea or in the desert or there is nobody around to through money at, I'm an asset.

About engines and their state: Yeah, that is a gamble. But if an owner insists on the engine being in good shape (and not give you the "shot engine" discount right away) you can at least make a compression test, maybe measure the CO in the coolant, remove the valve cover and look at the valve train/rockers (depending on engine layout), put a cheapo usb boroscope in every orifice, ... So you can't be sure but almost all major issues are detectable with some effort either by yourself our your trusty surveyor. And sometimes you just get lucky the other way round that the owner thinks the engine is shot and some new injectors do the magic...

Alright, gotta go, train to catch, money to earn...