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Old 16-11-2016, 15:34   #76
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Re: Vendee Globe 2016 - Bon Voyage!

Vincent on PRB still hanging in there
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Old 16-11-2016, 16:39   #77
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Re: Vendee Globe 2016 - Bon Voyage!

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Originally Posted by DDabs View Post
Are the foil designs made to only sail using the foils? Or are they just an additional benefit? If one breaks, would it go back to be like sailing a regular design Open 60? They still have the canting keel.
When foils were added, daggerboards were removed. So the foilers have a lifting foil and daggerboard combined in one 'foil'.

If they lose a foil, they lose 50% of the foiling advantage (on one tack) but also become sub prime on same tack working upwind - because of no daggerboard there now. Exception very light winds when the canting keel does 100% of lateral work.

And should any skipper carry a spare daggerboard ...

So yes losing a foil = boat less efficient than a non-foiler.

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Old 18-11-2016, 09:07   #78
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Re: Vendee Globe 2016 - Bon Voyage!

Cheers to the British Alex Thompson!!!

I confess I never though his advance could be maintained for so long time. He did not only maintained it as he had increased it!!!. What a shock for the French

It seems that this time he has one of the fastest boats on the fleet and he seems to have got a cure for the strategic routing errors that from time to time he used to make. I am quite impressed with his performance and that's a good thing for the Vendee globe as well as the good performance of the Japonese, the American, the Hungarian and the New Zealander.

I am very impressed with Colman, the NZ sailor that in a 2005 IMOCA made in Brazil and that was never fast (used as charter boat) is going on the head of this pack sailing among faster sailboats and more experienced sailors. Colman is still young (32) and if he can raise in Australia and NZ money for a competitive boat it has conditions to be a main contender on the next Vendee.

Next, very close and fighting between them, the Japonese Shiraishi (age- 49) on the ex-Hugo Boss, a 2007 sailboat and the Hungarian Nandor (age - 63) on a 2014 sailboat designed and built by himself!!!!! 63 and racing like that on a "home" made boat? Cheers to him

And a just bit further the American Rich Wilson (age - 66) on a 2006 boat. 66 years old and doing great, I can only say that I am envious of his stamina.

Another one that deserves a mention is the Spanish Didac Costa that sailing out 4 days later is almost catching the last one on a very old boat (2000), the ex-Kingfisher the one that belonged to Ellen MacArthur. Great race for him too.

There are others making great races that are not apparent just because they have very old and non competitive sailboats, that is the case with Romain Attanasio (the companion of Sam Davies) that is racing a 18 year's old sailboat and one that was never particularly fast. It was built for Catherine Chabaud. With that Oldie he is racing close to Rich Wilson and ahead of other much newer boats.

The opposite happens with Pieter Heerema (age 65) that is sailing a very competitive 2015 sailboat. He is behind all these, except Didac Costa, that gave him four days advantage and that, I bet, is going to catch him, on a boat 15 years older.

Nothing wrong in wanting to do the Vendee as an amateur, but why doing it with a top boat (that costed a fortune) taking the opportunity for a talented racer to be in contention for the first places? Few competitive boats around. A pity!!!
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Old 18-11-2016, 09:26   #79
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Re: Vendee Globe 2016 - Bon Voyage!

While the race is long - it sure looks like Hugo Boss is a dominant boat and AT is sailing her well. I wonder what the result would be had he stayed with the mainstream route in the beginning and hadn't had to compensate for the mistake.

Sorry got to respectfully disagree re amateur on fast boat. These events have always be about the individual against the elements and self discipline. More like golf than say formula one. Rich amateur going slow in a fast boat is no less worthy than professional sailor using Hugo Boss money to sail a new build. It'll be different if it were the Americas's Cup - but that race is already being controlled by a poopbag and I doubt will change hands while he's alive.
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Old 18-11-2016, 10:05   #80
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Re: Vendee Globe 2016 - Bon Voyage!

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...
Sorry got to respectfully disagree re amateur on fast boat. These events have always be about the individual against the elements and self discipline. More like golf than say formula one. Rich amateur going slow in a fast boat is no less worthy than professional sailor using Hugo Boss money to sail a new build. It'll be different if it were the Americas's Cup - but that race is already being controlled by a poopbag and I doubt will change hands while he's alive.
I guess you misunderstood me but you are wrong into thinking this race is not about the best sailors on fast boats.

If you look at the head pack you will see that they are the best as solo profissional sailors and as the best they got the Sponsors for the best boats.

Even so neither of them would be able to be among the first seven with Rich Wilson's boat (ex- Temenos, ex-Miraboud) even if it is not one of the oldest boats on the race (2006). Off course all of them would be far ahead of what Rich Wilson is now with his boat.

It seems to me you have a wrong idea about this race. This is a highly professional race and in that sense it has to do with F1. All the ones that are ahead are professional racers with a long career as professional solo racers and many victories and there is not any chance to see an amateur or semi-amateur among them, even if it had a similar boat. In this sense it is like F1.

Sure, it differs from F1 because here you have amateurs doing this race but all very far away from the head of the race and if going at the same speed as some 2th class professionals it is just because they have much better boats.

Note that as Amateurs I don't mean that they are not semi-professionals and have not a big list of achievements on other semi amateur classes. It is the case with Rich Wilson....and I said Rich is doing a great race and I truly believe he is.

Even Pieter, that is making a very bad race on a really top boat is a good amateur with many participation and wins on semi-amateur races, but that is not obviously the same thing neither the same level in what regards professional solo sailing.

I was not talking about Rich Wilson's boat but about Pieter's boat, that one is a last generation boat similar to the ones that are on the head of the race and with Pieter as skipper it is on its tail.

Put on it one of the young talented professional sailors that are on this race with less competitive boast, for instance Thomas Ruyant, on a 2007 boat and he would probably be fighting for the first places.
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Old 18-11-2016, 10:16   #81
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Re: Vendee Globe 2016 - Bon Voyage!

We will just have to agree to disagree. My view of the VG is that it is about doing the best one can and don't see it as the same competition sport as as match racing. Finishing is the goal - yes there are folks completely focused on beating records and being first, but they won't engage in what one considers aggressive match race tactics that essentially disrupt another. It is about doing the best with what you have and what you can.

I just don't see the "shame" in being wealthy and elderly and not donating one's faster boat to a youngster who can't secure the funding to captain the Hugo Boss. The elderly wealthy person is out there for himself, not trying to screw over the young person or win. They know that starting out - it's about the journey forthemselves .
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Old 18-11-2016, 10:24   #82
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Re: Vendee Globe 2016 - Bon Voyage!

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Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen View Post
We will just have to agree to disagree. My view of the VG is that it is about doing the best one can and don't see it as the same competition sport as as match racing. Finishing is the goal - yes there are folks completely focused on beating records and being first, but they won't engage in what one considers aggressive match race tactics that essentially disrupt another. It is about doing the best with what you have and what you can.

I just don't see the "shame" in being wealthy and elderly and not donating one's faster boat to a youngster who can't secure the funding to captain the Hugo Boss.
I don't disagree with you except on this race you have two races, one for the ones that want to win it, meaning that they have a competitive boat and are among the best and the others that just want to finish the race doing the best they can, as you say.

What I said regarding Pieter had nothing to do with donating his boat to a better racer, just that for doing the best he could and finish the race he didn't need to spend a fortune in a boat that actually could win the race on the hands of a top professional.

He could have done like most amateurs and have a boat from previous generations. The difference in results could not be that different, he still could finish the race and certainly would be dispensed from the embarrassment of sailing on the last places with a boat with potential to win the race.
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Old 18-11-2016, 10:36   #83
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Re: Vendee Globe 2016 - Bon Voyage!

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I don't disagree with you except on this race you have two races, one for the ones that want to win it, meaning that they have a competitive boat and are among the best and the others that just want to finish the race doing the best they can, as you say.

What I said regarding Pieter had nothing to do with donating his boat to a better racer, just that for doing the best he could and finish the race he didn't need to spend a fortune in a boat that actually could win the race on the hands of a top professional.

He could have done like most amateurs and have a boat from previous generations. The difference in results could not be that different, he still could finish the race and certainly would be dispensed from the embarrassment of sailing on the last places with a boat with potential to win the race.
First it still is HIS private money what he spends... Secondly its possible that he wants to keep the boat in one pice and finish with her. Third he already said that keeping the boat in one piece makes her valuable for a re-sale after the race, he is and always will be "a calculating" business man..

And last but not least, i respect him very much and hopes he succeeds..
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Old 18-11-2016, 11:23   #84
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Re: Vendee Globe 2016 - Bon Voyage!

Polux and Tricolour......I actually agree with both of you!

Just think of it as a running Marathon or Ironman competition

There are the sponsored professionals who have the best odds of winning the Trophy and giving their sponsors the publicity.

Then you have the dedicated amateurs, whose odds of wining are less, but in a long long race.. it is still possible and remains their holy grail.

The equipment varies on both classes depending on their pocketbook and backing, but it can be evened out due to being lucky in weather changes and tactical decisions.

However the main motivation of the so called amateur, is to complete the Marathon in a time and style they are proud of.

They are really competing against themselves.
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Old 18-11-2016, 12:15   #85
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Re: Vendee Globe 2016 - Bon Voyage!

Alex has all it takes: the skills, the drive, the boat, the experience.

And so do many other skippers.

It does seems his boat is a fraction of a knot faster overall than the other top 10 competitors ... or else he, known for driving HARD, is just doing his thing.

Hugo Boss is known for a long line of incidences and accidents ending up in capsizes, dismastings and you name it. Not just winners reap huge publicity benefits.

So, to sum it up, I can see three likely scenarios, in no specific order:

- Alex crashes into a UFO, and does not finish,
- Alex capsizes Hugo and dismasts her, and so he does not finish,
- he finishes, first.

To crash onto a UFO is easy for anybody. To capsize and dismast takes guts and skills and Alex has them.

To finish first, first you must finish. ;-)

Seriously though, other than things that are beyond Alex' (or anybody's) control, he stands a huge chance of winning this time.

And it is a great pleasure to watch him and the rest of the leading pack sailing +20 knots on a regular basis. Long live VG! Long live IMOCA!

b.
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Old 18-11-2016, 16:26   #86
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Re: Vendee Globe 2016 - Bon Voyage!

One thing I just learned is that the foilers have this high pitched whine to different levels and some are really bad!

I just wonder what both the Psychological and Physiological affects of this will be over such a long period of racing?
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Old 18-11-2016, 16:35   #87
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Re: Vendee Globe 2016 - Bon Voyage!

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
...

So, to sum it up, I can see three likely scenarios, in no specific order:

- Alex crashes into a UFO, and does not finish,
- Alex capsizes Hugo and dismasts her, and so he does not finish,
- he finishes, first.

To crash onto a UFO is easy for anybody. To capsize and dismast takes guts and skills and Alex has them.

To finish first, first you must finish. ;-)

Seriously though, other than things that are beyond Alex' (or anybody's) control, he stands a huge chance of winning this time.
....
b.
It is too soon. I agree that he has a fast boat, probably the fastest...on those conditions, not necessarily on the stronger winds on the big Southern desert and even if the boat has no disadvantage there he can make routing mistake. I believe he is not as good at that play as some that are pursuing him.

I agree also that he is very impulsive, has big balls and sometimes he pushes too much. These boats are not like smaller and less powerful racing boats where you can push all you want. On these boats it is possible to push them over the limit and break them. All an art to sailing as close to the limit as one can without breaking the boat.

As I said, too soon yet. We are at the beginning of the race, but hey... Cheers to Alex, he deserves them
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Old 18-11-2016, 17:32   #88
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Re: Vendee Globe 2016 - Bon Voyage!

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One thing I just learned is that the foilers have this high pitched whine to different levels and some are really bad!

I just wonder what both the Psychological and Physiological affects of this will be over such a long period of racing?
The skippers wear noise cancelling headsets.

You are right about the sound and its long term effect on the driver.

I think the real bad ones are those that are plain carbon boats (no foam core sandwich). I know this is the case with Hugo but I am not sure how the other foilers are built. I think Maitre CoQ may be foam as she was post-moded.

This:

News - Three questions for the architect Guillaume Verdier - Vendée Globe 2016-2017

is an interesting input on some foiling details.

Cheers,
b.
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Old 18-11-2016, 18:24   #89
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Re: Vendee Globe 2016 - Bon Voyage!

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
...

News - Three questions for the architect Guillaume Verdier - Vendée Globe 2016-2017

is an interesting input on some foiling details.

Cheers,
b.
Very interesting. I did not had read it but it seems I was spot on on the previous post:

"Alex has a boat that is not such a good all-rounder as the other foilers, but when conditions are favourable, he is quicker.....He needs to be careful to make sure the boat withstands this. More so than his rivals. He is going to have to be very careful in stormy weather and in the Southern Ocean and pull up his foils sufficiently early.”
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Old 18-11-2016, 18:28   #90
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Re: Vendee Globe 2016 - Bon Voyage!

Pieter threw his back out early in the race, and is in 'healing' mode. We will wait to see how he does when he feels better and has a bit more time in the boat.
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