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goboatingnow · 03-08-2022, 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rumrace

Does Tartan make a boat as pretty as an Oceanis? The 40.1 is a honey the First 36 Costs more cause 14 knots out of the box.
I toured 4 very similar well equipped boats. Hanse Jeanneau Beneteau and Dufour. The Benniteau had the highest price the worst bow thruster installation every. The Dufour was pre sold and allowing a show to trample through the boat. Another non invested dealer scam. The Hanse sold at the show and had a tax advantage coming direct from Europe. That’s just 4 brands. Everyone is in that zone including Catalina. If Tartan can’t produce a boat in the Zone they are targeting a smaller market.
Hinckley certainly are. Donzi, Cigarette, Palmer Johnston, ...
Hinderholler were like that in Canada. They made a Limeridge power boat a fat Cuddy 25’ I think twice the price it was worth. Became a status symbol. C&C bested then in Sailboats

Pre sold boats are usually exhibited with the agreement of the owner and financial compensation is usually involved.

Rumrace · 03-08-2022, 08:15

Yup it’s a popular scam. The dealer is committed to no inventory. He got paid but further investigation into handling taxes etc not much not enough.
I’ve seen boats closed at shows because the dealers no longer own them.

outbound_308 · 03-08-2022, 08:52

sorry I've been offline.

In regard to the 90% at anchor 10% sailing statement. We here this often and it's true, I just don't understand why people put their "good enough" on the sailing percentage. Yes you do it les, but it requires more of the boat and it's crew. In my opinion that's what a sailboat is supposed to be doing and it should be the priority. Now that's not supposed to be everyone's focus or opinion that's just mine. You have to decide what your priorities are.

As far as modern design goes, I'm not opposed to that at all, it just depends. If the boat has a bunch of sharp corners and angles below(the current trend), while pretty and modern I would veto that boat. I get enough bruises on my little boat without all the sharp angles it just doesn't make good sea sense for me. For someone else that might not be a big deal

outbound_308 · 03-08-2022, 08:57

If being at anchor is the only consideration the a cat wins hands down pretty much in every regard. I just don't need all that strolling around room. I like the big back deck on a cat and the real-estate to have so much solar, other than that not my cup of tea.

As I would like to go to Norway and Iceland that puts them out. As well as all the bulkhead issues coming out now on the production models. Just no interest.

outbound_308 · 03-08-2022, 09:02

Illusion, what years is your Alden?

SV-Viento · 03-08-2022, 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by SV Tom Crean

Not just the interiors but the hull designs are at least a generation behind. Plus conservative deck layouts seem to be the norm for U.S. designed boats.

I couldn’t agree more and this IMO is how I read the OPs question. Again IMO US builders are designing interiors that look like Archie Bunkers living room with hulls from the late 90’s.

We went through this exact process 4 years ago and short of going custom their are simply not builders in the US that offer similar build quality, in contemporary hull and interior design packages. The list of mostly EU builders up thread is where one can now find builders that offer these qualities within an attainable budget.

SV-Viento · 03-08-2022, 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by SV Tom Crean

So if you take the old adage of 10% passage making and 90% at anchor then for me I focus on the needs of the 90% (and good enough for the 10%). That means good storage, easy access to the water and dingy, bright interior so that it doesn’t feel like a cave. My personal prefs were as little wood as possible - my house doesn’t have wood panelling so why should my boat (except if you want tradition). A Beneteau, Bav, Jeanneau or other modern euro design fits all these requirements. You mention Oyster and Gozzard - don’t think I would put both of these boats in the same cat. So so different.

Gozzard - personally not for me. Too old school, clipper bow, no flat areas on deck to drag out a couple of chairs and watch the sunset. Too much fuss down below, windows too small so darker inside.

Tartan - much the same. They build quality boats but old designs and I wish they would update what is at least a 14 year old design.

I would also add that in todays market your window to your customer is your website and both these brands do a terrible job in presenting their products to a potential customer.

I may be the wrong side of 60 but I don’t have a traditional bone in my body. I like clean lines, uncluttered decks and cockpits, flush hatches and big bright interiors.

Exactly my thoughts on all points and why our business went to a different country. I have zero problem with this but seems like a missed opportunity for NA builders.

Rumrace · 03-08-2022, 09:36

I love my Jeanneau but next boat I could be talked into an equally well built US boat with similar flare and contemporary style

outbound_308 · 03-08-2022, 10:15

Yep, don't mind that aesthetic, if you look at the new Oysters, Amels, HR, etc they are all going that way. when you look at the used market there isn't much out there on the US side for this type of boat.

Hylas (not US but readily available)
outbound rare on the used market
Sundeer Big boats and rare on the used market
J/boats probably best option, as far as availability and modern/quality build. Helm weather protecting not as good as the outbound with the hard dodger.
Alden, Hinckley, Shannon, PS etc available no fold down transom or sugar scoop for easy boarding from the dinghy, exposed helm in many of these as well.

**s/v Jedi** · 03-08-2022, 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rumrace

I love my Jeanneau but next boat I could be talked into an equally well built US boat with similar flare and contemporary style

You know, there is a lot of criticism for every design, incl. my Sundeer. I can come up with many negatives of the design of your boat: no flush deck, no main traveler, no dinghy davits, no solar array, no pilothouse, no watertight compartments etc. I have no knowledge about construction quality and finishing but the Jeanneau we chartered in 2000 was rough wherever you couldn’t see, like inside cabinets etc.

Yachts like Hinckley aren’t about yuppie interiors, they are for people who love the traditional designs. In Holland, a well established center of yacht building, there are countless who prefer the old traditional gaf rigged designs over everything designed the past century. They have nightmares about having to board a modern production sailboat made out of plastic.

My boat is plastic fantastic but I don’t think it’s something to be proud of; it’s just that I’m too busy or too lazy to varnish brightwork every couple months

So what is built in the US today isn’t much mainstream modern designs. The J-boat is one. It’s like a family member of Sundeer, built by the same people with many of the same components.

outbound_308 · 03-08-2022, 11:36

Thanks Jedi,
didn't know they were built by the same people.

goboatingnow · 03-08-2022, 11:40

Sundeers are essentially a custom boat built in tiny numbers. That section of the market can’t be compared to glass fibre production brands I mentioned above. as Nick mentioned there are also several bespoke yards in Europe that will build to whatever aesthetic you want. But this price point is beyond a lot of people.