tartan 34C yawl vs wellington 47 ketch

[waipea]

Hi guys, im new to this forum me and my wife are about to buy a boat to cruise, the goal is to make it from Los angeles to the Caribbean by sailing west. i narrow my search into this 2 boats that i consider off shore capable and match my limited budget.
a tartan 34c with a yawl and a wellington 47 ketch with flush deck.
my crew is my wife and 2 dogs.

thank in advance for your input

[Lazerbrains]

As these are both centerboard designs, neither would be my choice for such a voyage. You are talking about crossing the Pacific, the Indian Ocean, rounding the cape, and up through the Atlantic. Think carefully about what type of boat and build you would trust to do that.

[Paul Annapolis]

Greetings Your post is similar to many such posts on here which make it almost confounding, in my humble opinion, for me (and perhaps others) to offer meaningful advice. Often, when many of us do respond, the OP does not keep us updated or provide more information as is requested. I do hope that you won't be like that. Many of us will respond and try to be helpful, often repeating the same advice, or contradicting each other, but we need a baseline and only YOU can give that. Otherwise...where do we go from here?

Once this thread gets going, you'll probably see a plethora of different opinions, some valuable and others...not helpful. But I would bet that almost everyone will say these two boats are VERY different and not even worth the comparison or discussion because of their stark differences. So, where do we start? Well, for one thing, why narrow your choice to a specific boat or even two? None of us have any idea about who you are, what is your background, your timeframe, your budget, sailing experience...and at the least--what are you looking for in a boat? It's not about a specific boat but is about general characteristics that are either essential, desirable or not important and about things that cannot be easily changed or cannot be changed at all eg. keel, rudder, general rig, propulsion, layout, tankage etc. Some people can do this in a smaller boat and do long passages. Others may want more room and comfort and do shorter passages. These two boats are so entirely different from each other that it again suggests an underlying lack of familiarity and experience to undertake such a voyage/cruise. I could be wrong--but am trying to be helpful with what I believe to be straightforward advice.

Two dogs? Limited budget? Important details are missing. Have you taken the dogs on short cruises? How did they do? How big are they? What about your partner and her experience. Has she or you done long passages? Why not consider a cutter or sloop? A split rig has advantages for certain, but doubles the spars and rigging and sails and intrusion into the deck. Dog food takes up a lot of room-and they need more water too. What about calculating storage needs? Again 34' or 47'???? What about autopilot or wind-vane for such a voyage? Again--what are your needs in a boat and why such totally different boats? If budget is a concern--there is your answer right there! Buy the smaller boat...maybe. But why don't you tell us more about their age, condition, equipment, draft, keel, rudder, sails, It is not a good idea to talk "limited budget" because we have no idea what means. Everyone's budget is limited, even Warren Buffet's budget, and the only exception is that of the federal government. But, if your choice is based on the budget, that is a BIG issue and has major implications. Budget for buying or budget for equipping, maintaining and living? Yes the budget is critical but we have no information about that. Have you laid out a budget? If so, please advise us.

Are you looking at the WWellington 47 in Florida for $300k or the one in California for 30K? My guess is the second one. It is on Yachtworld and as most sailors know, this boat will take ENORMOUS time and money to prepare for a world cruise, so does it really fit your "limited budget"? Are you looking at the one in Venice, CA for 25k also on Yachtworld? It looks to be closer to being ready to go, but that does not mean it is the best bet for you.

If you have not done a lot of long voyages, why not buy the Tartan, do some smaller trips and see how it works out? Otherwise you could be about 100k or more just to get the Wellington ready.

Please, help us to help you but start by telling us more about your background, abilities, experience, budget, proposed route (other than west to the Caribbean), timeframe, proposed duration of cruise etc etc. What do you think will be your longest passage? It could be a great adventure and everyone here wishes you well, but preparation and planning is of the essence. I hope you take this well-meaning advice in the manner in which it has been presented.

[waipea]

Hi paul thanks for the long answer, let me start to see if i can meet all your points.
the boat you mentioned are the ones I've been looking for, i just turned 40 last week my wife is 27, the dogs are are border collie mixes 40 and 80 pounds . im coming from a 6 generations of sea dogs but i was the black sheep of the family who turned away from the sea and went for a career in the music business, my most precious tool for my job was my ears and i started to loose my earring due to stress , feeling hopeless and struggling from panic attack i rode my bike into a train 6 weeks ago and that when i got the epiphany that i needed to turn my life 180 degrees and start from scratch, that night i came home and contact my studio gear provider and ask him to sell everything in my studio cuz i decide to sail away from the rat race.my wife hates Los angeles all my gig were canceled due to the corona y wife loose her job, we can afford to keep paying the crazy rent we pay in DTLA we need to get out of here with our dogs at this point we have nothing left to lose.
i used to crew for my dad in small passages in the caribbean sea, my wife never been on a boat neither the dogs. we started 4 weeks ago to take safety courses , navigation etc until were all canceled due to the virus. our budget go up to 40K-45K after i seen everything i have. trust me i saw every single boat around LA area, most of them are catalinas and hunters that i understand they are not made for offshore cruising. i haven't see the wellington in person, i think im going today, but the other boats i saw most are rotten inside, have deck issues, etc.
my dad is being repairing boats for over 30 years in venezuela i was flying him but his flight was canceled due to the virus.
i was very inclined to the tartan because it looks in good condition seems like a boat easy to handle with a short crew, my plans for the boat was to redo the standing rigging , add a hydrovane , build a water maker, add communication and safety gear and if i can afford get a parasailor for the downwind. my dad is the one saying that the boat is too small for the trip and is pushing me into a bigger boat. i was looking into a choate 40 here in long beach but after a couple of emails with Del he talk me out of the boat for my purpose.

my timeframe for the trip is wide open, ill go as i go. my plan was to sail south into baja mexico,down to vallarta, and then do the big jump to french polynesia , having a european passport i can spend some time there, no rush at all for the trip , then new Zealand, Australia, indonesia, then around south africa , Spain ,and make the cross to the caribbean

the main reason im coming to the sea is because off you guys, sea people look after each other and always wish well WAY opposite of what i deal for 25 years in the music industry where everyone wants to chop your head so your are not a competition

[Lazerbrains]

Realize that as Paul said you will need much more money than just the purchase price of the boat to get her seaworthy - even if you do your own work. Rigging, haulouts, bottom paint, sails, etc are expensive. Also, I'm curious as to how you plan to keep revenue coming in. If after all your savings you have 45k and spend it all on the boat, you will still need $$ for food, diesel fuel, and repairs. For two of you, even staying in anchor, I would suspect you would need to plan at least $1000 per month. Also, the wear and tear of crossing so many oceans will take it's toll on the boat (i.e. lots or repairs and replacement of gear).

Not trying to throw water on your plans, but you do need to think this out a bit. It is not free to sail the oceans. Furthermore, 2 border collies are not going to like sailing for 5-6 weeks at a time cooped up on a boat, and you will need to carry lots of dog food. Most foreign countries will not allow you to bring dogs in, either, unless you quarantine them for a length of time.

As for the boats, I do know that the Tartan Yawl you are looking at has been sitting on the market for over 2 years now - I suspect it has major problems or it would have sold by now.

[Jim Cate]

Others have covered the boat issues pretty well, but I'll add my concerns about your finances being adequate to buy, refit and maintain even the Tartan, let alone a basket case old 47 footer.

Next, the idea of having two large and very high energy dogs like Boarder Collies on any boat, let alone a narrow 34 footer for even day sails... torture for the dogs, misery for you seeing them in such stress. IMO this is a very bad plan for everyone concerned.

Further, planning such extensive voyaging with a partner with NO boating experience is folly. Not many folks really like sailing in the first place, and of those that do, only a few enjoy long passages. To thrust your trusting lady into this has a lot of possible failure points, one of which is sea sickness... a common malady that has scuppered many a planned voyage.

The lure of escaping to the sea is real. To succumb to the lure can be disappointing, or damaging or fatal if not taken seriously and a bit slower than you are proposing. My advice would be to buy a decent smaller boat, even one of the ubiquitous Catalinas that you dismiss so quickly, and spend a year or two learning the ropes and skills needed, and perhaps acclimatizing your partner and your dogs to the life. If that works out, move on (and hopefully the dread virus threat will be diminished or gone by then and cruising actually a viable practice again).

I know... not what you wanted to hear, but as a fairly experienced cruiser, one who likes dogs and Border Collies in particular, that's what I'd recommend.

Good luck,

Jim

[JPA Cate]

Hello, waipea,

Welcome to Cruisers Forum, where opinions run rife.

Mate, you're already in the storm. California's harbors are closed to all but essential traffic, and one's personal escape is not considered by the powers that be to be essential. They won't let you leave. Furthermore, right now, there's nowhere to go to, because the corona virus epidemic has motivated governments all over the world to close their harbors to all but essential traffic, as well. This condition will probably still be what is in effect in 6 months time, and no one knows how much longer than that.

You may be interested to know that San Diego County has so far listed landscape and pool maintenance as "essential." [from a phone call with a relative living there]. You are going to need some kind of income if you go ahead with any boat...and possibly if you don't.

You and your wife may become frightened by the approaching what looks like chaos. It is a time to be really practical, and not clutch at straws.

All across the Pacific, all the islands are closed, and French Polynesia's people are going through a period where they were not welcoming cruisers, even before the shutdowns.

Long ocean voyages are stressful for many people, and I don't know what your dogs will do, perhaps hold their urine till it kills them. You have to teach dogs where to pee and defecate on a boat. If they are "housebroken", it will be hard for them to learn the routine, even though they are smart dogs.

Long ocean voyages really require boats that will get you there, but you can't go there, and NZ and Australia, besides being closed, have major quarantines for dogs (and cats), 6 mo. I believe, at your expense.

Right now, cruising is near as dammit broken. It may or may not come back, that will depend on how things go after the epidemic has run its course. All of us are in the same boat, and no crystal ball, nor magic mirror.

It is normal to have this "stop the world, I wanna get off" feeling. It is all very scary. What you need to do is use your mind, and do what you can. Check, if there is a marina where you are allowed to live aboard, and if they have size limits for liveaboards, and even if they have any slips unrented at this time.....but you will have to have enough $$ for marina fees. Everything will be money going out and with nothing coming in, unless you and/or your good lady switch to an "essential" occupation.

Go on line, see if you can figure out how much running rigging would cost for the 47 footer, compared to the Tartan. It will be a peek into how much more it will cost to run a 47 foot boat than a Tartan 36. Honestly, I agree with Jim, above, even a 47 footer is still a small boat compared to Border Collies' exercise needs. Our boat is 46'.

You don't know about your wife's possible seasickness, nor the dogs'. You have few seamanship skills. Davy Jones might just like the look of all that. Seriously, sailboat life is not for everyone, even in the best of times, and right now, it isn't the best of times.

Good luck with it. It is not that I don't wish you well, but that you really don't seem to have a clue what you're getting yourself into. Neither boat is ready, and you'll have breakage on passages (most of us do, especially on the longer ones) it can be like you're hemorrhaging money. Also, if anticipating rescue if it all turns pear shaped, don't count on it being able to arrive in a timely fashion, I expect those personnel with medical training are all going to be called into use to help with the pandemic. What you see now in the States is just the beginning of an exponential growth of cases.

These are really tough times, be kind to each other.

Ann

[waipea]

ho guys thanks for the opinion and information is very valuables just came back from san diego i went to see the wellington 47 it looks like an 18 wheeler , to be honest i don't think is a boat easy to handle short handed, on top of that a crazy lady who lives on the boat next to it freaked out and seems like the boat can't be seem until may 30th, the broker was really ashamed of the situation so im pulling that boat out of the list.. i know the tartan is been in the market for a while, i won't buy the boat without a proper surveyor coming to work.. about revenue ill have some royalties ,youtube and other kind of pasive income 1000$ doesn't sound like a lot of money, is a fraction of what i spend living in LA. of course im not gonna jump right away. im giving myself at least a year from now to prepare the boat and my crew for whats coming ahead. i need your help to choose the right boat , with the right bones. im very capable do pretty much everything on the boat maintaince wise. I've installed million dollar consoles on multimillion dollar facilities for a living beside my music engineering gigs. i just need to pick the boat with right characteristics if you guys know any boat in the local area that you think i should check im open to your opinions

all best

[Lazerbrains]

Waipea -

Here is a good boat that I have personally seen. Owner was getting it ready to sail to Australia and had a change of plans. He did extensive work on refitting it - even all the sails are brand new - it would not take much time nor money to prepare it for an extended cruise, and it is a good, stable offshore design by Bob Perry: https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/197...utter-3604225/

[skipmac]

I have to agree with Jim on one significant point, two medium to large size dogs on a 34' Tartan is a no go even at the dock. On a long passage at sea it would be horribly unpleasant for dogs and people. Don't do it. Even on a larger boat, weeks at sea are no place for a dog unless you're on a ship.

This doesn't even address the issues with pets in foreign countries. Many countries do not allow animals at all and many others have strict requirements on immunizations, quarantine time, etc.

[waipea]

thanks lazerbrain, might i ask why you skip on the boat? it looks like a lot of teak to maintain , ill email the seller.

about the dogs there is no other way i can take leave the country other than sea,
there is a stupid new bill that is gonna pass where not even ESA animal will be allowed to flight in a cabin, and there is no way my dogs will flight on the cargo area, they have more chance to die than a human doing Everest.

why should i consider a catalina when even Butler said that his boats were not made for off shore? i would like to hear your opinions, i heard that the ones designed by SS where better than other catalinas, but i might be wrong .

[Lazerbrains]

Waipea - I already have a boat, but I helped a friend look at it. As for the teak, he has been using some type of finish that sounds pretty easy - you just wash the teak with a special product every few months - as you can see they are not varnished. It keeps the wood natural without turning grey - Ask the seller about it. That price is very good, btw - I'm sure the new sails alone cost half what they are asking.

[Eleuthera 2014]

Wrong boats as mentioned before

2 dogs? why do you hate them that much? They will not enjoy it and will set you back a fortune with quarantine and kennel fees.

Rethink needed....

[waipea]

Originally Posted by Eleuthera 2014

Wrong boats as mentioned before

2 dogs? why do you hate them that much? They will not enjoy it and will set you back a fortune with quarantine and kennel fees.

Rethink needed....

eleuthera No i don't hate my dogs, they are the kids that ill never have but im leaving this ****ing country and im not leaving my dogs behind to die in a shelter, ill skip the ports that request quarantine period , so lets please limit the post to guide me into the proper boat, if you guys wanna talk about dogs go to the peta website.

[Jim Cate]

please limit the post to guide me into the proper boat,

You seem to be missing the point that there is NO cruising boat that will accommodate the dogs and fit anywhere near your budget.

You now allow that you will just skip the ports which require quarantine for the dogs. Which ones did you have in mind? And what about the quarantine for YOU that will be required by those few places that don't just send you on your way. Most of the Pacific is closed to cruisers already... there are NO places to go where you or your pals will be welcome just now.

Some of us who have actually sailed away from the USA for long periods are trying to save you from some serious mistakes. Casting off has never been all that easy; in these harrowing times it is essentially impossible. It may become feasible again in time, and then your plan has some hope of success... sans dogs or with a much larger budget. So, the advice to buy an inexpensive coastal type boat and start getting some hands on experience in both sailing and understanding the difficulty of dealing with your canine kids on board really makes sense. By the time you have done that, perhaps you won't have to ask for help in choosing a boat, and will appreciate the difficulties of your plan.

Being hostile to those who are trying to help you isn't a good game plan.

Jim