Realistic boats for blue water cruising

[Lambordinghy]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Did I piss you off? If so please explain.

I was totally joking!! You're completely right! Reading and studying is second to none in importance to getting involved in sailing. Too many novices take off into the ICW and don't know the rules of the road and people end up hurt! However, I do think it is extremely important that he, to some extent, gets out there and tries new things, and makes a few mistakes. Mistakes teach more than any other method of learning (assuming he has read and learned enough to only make minor mistakes!).

Cheers,

-Lam

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Lambordinghy

I was totally joking!! You're completely right! Reading and studying is second to none in importance to getting involved in sailing. Too many novices take off into the ICW and don't know the rules of the road and people end up hurt! However, I do think it is extremely important that he, to some extent, gets out there and tries new things, and makes a few mistakes. Mistakes teach more than any other method of learning (assuming he has read and learned enough to only make minor mistakes!).

Cheers,

-Lam

The ICW doesn't scare me, although idiots try to take down docks. My concern was someone going off shore without a clue. Unfortunately they are searching the kids from Fl. off our coast in SC. God bless them, I am not optimistic.

[markwesti]

Here is some stuff to look at , at least the 28's and 32'shttp://www.westsail.com/Westfs.htm
Here are some people "doin' it"http://sundownersailsagain.com/ look around on their blog there is a ton of info .
Good luck keep us posted !

[Zzmeyer]

Learning to sail is the easy part. The risk is inversely proportional to experience. the more experience you get the less risk in offshore sailing. I agree with lots of comments above. You need to learn what needs to be fixed before you head out and how to fix things underway. You need to know what equipment you need and what you want. If I were to do it again I'd climb over about 100 boats with asking price of about 1/2 your total pre-departure budget (you'll need resources once underway). When I found one I liked I'd buy it. If it doesn't work out - sell it; but as the Pardey's, well respected lifelong cruisers said, "go small, go now". I'd plan on spending a year or two close to home getting the boat ready to go, learning to sail and to live on a boat. For me, the best way to do that is to own the boat and talk to people around you. Backwards to what many say, but I'd do it that way. With your budget you are talking about and old small boat so you need to learn if you can enjoy that type of living. In choosing a boat 1) go fiberglass 2) diesel and with lots left over to fix it.

[lesterbutch]

I have trouble with the idea of learning how to sail on a dozen different shape and size boats before you take off. Buy the boat you want to sail in and spend some time sailing it and getting to know its good, bad and quirky points. I also don't aggree with amateurs sailing off single handed. Sailing is great with someone who you are truley attuned to, a soul mate! Give real thought before you rush off and find yourself wishing you stayed home, boats are most enjoyable when their finer points can be bantied about over a cold one! Good luck and fair winds!

[thomm225]

Here are a couple good sites to look at for your boat.

Btw, I've own (2) Hobie 16's, a Nacra 6.0, and a Nacra F-17 and raced them for 15 years. When I say raced I mean raced with the best: Smyth, Lambert, Curry, Newkirk, back in the day.

You know how to sail but cruising is a different game. Think sleeping at anchor 70 yards from shore with a 25 knot onshore breeze. You need the right anchor which we never carried on our beach cats.

Luckily for me, my boat was owned by an old cruiser and it came with (5) anchors including the main one a 20lb CQR and a big Bruce for backup. Both with 40' of heavy chain and 300' rode:

Atom Voyages - Good Old Boats List

Mahina Expedition - Selecting A Boat for Offshore Cruising

[Zzmeyer]

Last two posts brilliant. Listen to them.

[evbeck]

Westsail 32 great suggestion. Try the recent book by John Kretschmer "Sailing a Serious Ocean," in particular the chapter on Water boats">blue water boats. Agree - will have to be able to do diesel and systems work to prevent cost spiralling. We all have to throw off the dock lines though.

[mstrebe]

Originally Posted by cwyckham

Everyone always talks about how great it is that you can run a full keel aground. How often does this happen? Why sacrifice sailing performance for the slight improvement in aground performance?



I agree on the rudder, though again, you can rig an emergency rudder for the very unlikely event of a lost spade rudder. I don't understand how a full keel has any effect on capsizing, though.



I have a fin keel, spade rudder bluewater boat and I wouldn't want a full keel unless my budget couldn't support anything else.

Well, I've run aground three times, twice in the Chesapeake with my daggerboard boat where getting off just meant hauling up the board (which is why I wasn't worried about depth) and once in San Diego Bay on a shifted sand bar at low tide in my fin keel boat, and we had to be towed off (my wife was on the helm).

The issue with running aground with a fin keel is that it can damage the hull invisibly at the keel-hull joint, increasing the likelihood of losing the keel entirely.

My current boat is a dual-rudder fin keel wide-beam boat and I do intend to do some serious passage making with it when I retire, I just accept the minor additional risk because I prefer the performance.


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[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by mstrebe

Well, I've run aground three times, twice in the Chesapeake with my daggerboard boat where getting off just meant hauling up the board (which is why I wasn't worried about depth) and once in San Diego Bay on a shifted sand bar at low tide in my fin keel boat, and we had to be towed off (my wife was on the helm).

The issue with running aground with a fin keel is that it can damage the hull invisibly at the keel-hull joint, increasing the likelihood of losing the keel entirely.

My current boat is a dual-rudder fin keel wide-beam boat and I do intend to do some serious passage making with it when I retire, I just accept the minor additional risk because I prefer the performance.


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It sounds like we're very much on the same page, then. Running aground in Chesapeake bay hardly counts. Isn't that just a rite of passage?

I've been aground twice, both times with a fin keel. One was on sand and the other on a sloping rock shelf. Both were very gentle groundings and we were able to motor off.

It is certainly possible to wack a high aspect ratio fin keel hard enough to throw everyone forward and crack the joint. There are lots of different fin to hull joints and most of them will do fine in even a pretty violent grounding.

Like you, I think the sailing performance is more important than the very low chance of losing a keel due to a grounding. I also happen to have a boat with a long and well attached fin keel, but I'd buy one with a higher aspect ratio as well if I was comfortable with the attachment.

[mstrebe]

One of the great things about a bolt-on keel is that you can swap them out. MarsKeel is the OEM for my boat and they will do the engineering and casting for bespoke high-aspect lead keels.

I'm strongly considering going to a higher aspect lead keel (current is iron) when we outfit the boat for cruising.


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[Tetepare]

Why in God's name would somebody young buy a boat to cruise the world? Get a crew job on somebody else's boat! Plenty of long distance cruisers looking for crew.

Knowing how to sail is one tiny part of international travel. Knowing how to negotiate with the corrupt official is just important, as is knowing that an immature coconut is, absolutely, edible.

The best way to cruise, race cars, shoot machineguns, or hang is on somebody else's dime. Learn on the way, be industrious and earn your keep. If you don't like the port, destination, or transport, jump ship.

[Zzmeyer]

Of course it is insane to own a boat at any age. But we do it. I've been sailing 45 years and just took delivery of a brand new 50 footer with all the toys. I still remember the situation we are talking about here. So I can't help but fantasize for him and offer my two sense. The Westsail 32 is a good boat and generally well equipped for cruising. Only two for sail on the west coast where you live and they are in mid $30k. If you go this route stay away from the home made boats. I don't think you have the experience to determine the quality of build. There are 76 boats between $15k and $30k in California above thirty feet with a diesel. Before you are ready to cruise you and the boat need to get ready. A good surveyor (look in yellow pages under "good surveyor", not "bad surveyor") will do a good job in identifying structural issues which need to be fixed. In my experience, they don't generally do as good a job on the engine or rigging. These are your two most expensive fixes so make sure you know what you are getting in to. Virtually every old boat I've owned had some frozen throughhulls and batteries near the end of their lives. Fix both. In the recent transpac 4 of 6 boats that retired had rudder problems. Make sure you address any issues here. Most of the California boats I mentioned need upgraded ground tackle (breathtakingly expensive) and safety equipment (I wouldn't go offshore without a liferaft or EPIRB), but I know many who do with the theory if they need them and don't have them they will die and being dead they won't realize how stupid they were. I'm jealous of the journey you are embarking on. Fair winds and following seas.

[Smithpurd]

I am absolutely blown away by the amount of both responses and activity on this site. The amount of info here is incredible. I joined the humboldt yacht club and forgot to mention that in the OP. Someone also mentioned to read some moitessier, but I am already halfway through " the long way" I will be sure to send some private messages, but I had some more questions about this site without getting to far off topic. A lot of people reccomended getting a crew position on a boat. I noticed an option for that on the top of this site. Does this work?is it as active as the forums? Have other people gotten crew from this website? Thanks again

[Pizzazz]

It depends a lot on how committed you are to sailing and your tolerance to risk. The resale value of older boats (in your price range) depends on how well maintained they are.

If you are just starting with keel boats my suggestion would be to get a well maintained, 80s/90s production boat in the 30-35 ft range, fin keel, spade rudder, etc. for $20-30K. Spend another $10-15K on safety, sails, solar and minimal electronics and you are good to go. You will enjoy this boat tremendously in the coastal waters (fast, spacious, attractive). Then, one day you could do a crossing in such a boat. It will be uncomfortable but perfectly doable.

Some people will say that blue water boats are safer for ocean crossings but this is not necessarily so. They are more comfortable but not statistically safer. Have a look at the ARC fleets to get an idea about ocean going cruisers today.

Once you get to the South Pacific and assuming you are still committed to the sailing lifestyle, you could get a real blue water boat inexpensively there. If you have had enough, just ditch the production boat and move on with your life.

I believe that the bigger risk is not survival in an eventual crossing but the approach where you get an old blue water boat, spend time and money fixing it, do not enjoy it because it is not optimized for coastal cruising and then 3 years later you give up on sailing while being unable to sell the boat. Too many friends did that.

Regarding experience before you set-out, I suggest you have at least 50 days on the water, both with more experienced sailors and on your own to build confidence. Take a few 3-4 day trips in moderate weather, closer to shore (but not too close!). You will know when you are ready.