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Mango Bob · 04-03-2010, 17:30

Let's not forget that many new boats come with all the latest "bells & whistles" electronics which will need upgrading every few years (just like computers) along with all the latest "push button - power driven, auto-magic, turn-it, lift-it, dock-it high maintenance gadgets & all their feeds to a central nervous system.

If you're not into the push-button generation, an older, more experienced boat may be the choice for you!

Tag on thought: Does any cruising boat line still offer the "bullet proof" solid core hulls or have they all gone the way of cored hull w/ lighter is better?

IceMan · 04-03-2010, 20:04

Quote:

even if only going coastal I would get the heaviest and strongest boat I could afford .. not the newest .. but that's just me.

Every single post here has valid points and is correct for the most part. But if you want an older boat that boats are judged against, then an older CSY Walkthrough or Walkover cannot be beat. There is no coring to worry about as the boat is solid fiberglass. Blisters if there are any are no big concern and you will not have to wonder if the boat will stand up to what you throw at it. Yes it is older, from the late 70's to the mid 80's. It acquired the nick name of the Tampa Tub because it is heavy and beamy. But it also acquired the name of "Reef Breaker" because of its shear strength. They had great builders, but bad accountants. The boat is so strong that they just did not realize how much material they put in the boat. The ones that you find will need some refit but those will be mostly with systems not with structural. You can find them for a decent price and not end up broke. If you want a boat for just coastal cruising, maybe then a walkover is the way to go. Huge mid cockpit, 400 gallons of water and 200 in fuel. If out fitted properly you can have everything, scuba compressor, tanks, washer/dryer combo. It will not do 10 knots but hull speed is 8.1. And it is STRONG and will bring you home! Just my 2 cents worth. If you want to learn more about these classic boats, go to
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WD

**Dockhead** · 04-03-2010, 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hornloaded

These are all good points. The one thing I find interesting it the current and future market place. Most banks wont loan on anything older than 30 years (1980 right now).
It is easy to get a loan on a boat 10 years or younger (2001 right now).

If you do a boat search, the 80's will yeild lots of big keel boats. After 1990 that list get real small. After 2000 all you get is Hunter/Catalina/Beneteau (unless you have lots of money). Seems to me, in another 10 -15 years the cruisers wont have much choice. Pay all cash or buy a more modern production boat.

I'm finding it easier to get the loan on a six year old Beneteau for 170K (equipped to the gills and low hours on the engine) than a thirty year C&C for 80K (well equipped but needs a lot of expensive stuff including an engine eventually).

If those are the choices, I would definitely go with the Bene. A lot less headache and in the long run less money. It will mean radically less time fixing and fiddling, and proportionately more time sailing. And incomparably better performance.

Somebody here is making a deal out of cored versus solid hulls. The Benes hulls are solid as far as I know, no coring except in the deck, as are all inexpensive production boats I have heard about. Cored hulls are more expensive and difficult to produce, but are stiffer, lighter, quieter, and warmer. They are used on a lot of high-end boats like Hinckleys and many Swans, all J-Boats and X-Yachts. Oyster eschews them, however, at least below the waterline. They present a greater risk, of course, of problems.

Joli · 05-03-2010, 05:29

We like our old boat, 36 years old this year. A little paint, a little cleaning, pop a new engine in......good to go.

Old boats can be repaired and new boat are outrageously priced. Remember, the most expensive part of boat ownership is depreciation. Old boats are already full depreciated.

Fun with family and friends.

SailFastTri · 05-03-2010, 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Buy whichever one you fancy using most for the next 10 years.

That's the right answer. 10 years from now your decision on what you want will likely change, for any number of reasons. Whatever you buy today will need major upgrades and replacement. You can't predict the future and can always change boats if you've still got your health and the money -- so get the boat you want to sail for the next 5 years and don't worry beyond that.

BTW -- I went through 3 boats in 8 years (one a major refit) and my kids told me to name the 3rd one "for sale" so I wouldn't need to put a sign on it.

Joli · 05-03-2010, 05:50

Wow, we tend to hold our boats for a long time, 15 years minimum. We buy boats that sail well and bring us joy during our time on the water. The kids said we cant sell this boat, they get it when we pass away. Which I hope isn't for a while. LOL

SailFastTri · 05-03-2010, 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hornloaded

These are all good points. The one thing I find interesting it the current and future market place. Most banks wont loan on anything older than 30 years (1980 right now).
It is easy to get a loan on a boat 10 years or younger (2001 right now).

If you do a boat search, the 80's will yeild lots of big keel boats. After 1990 that list get real small. After 2000 all you get is Hunter/Catalina/Beneteau (unless you have lots of money). Seems to me, in another 10 -15 years the cruisers wont have much choice. Pay all cash or buy a more modern production boat.

I'm finding it easier to get the loan on a six year old Beneteau for 170K (equipped to the gills and low hours on the engine) than a thirty year C&C for 80K (well equipped but needs a lot of expensive stuff including an engine eventually).

Don't go into debt for a boat. It's a luxury item and most are a poor investment. Go smaller and sail what you can afford out of your current assets. If you're only day sailing and weekend/vacation cruising in the short-term you will leave the dock more frequently in a smaller boat that's easier to sail and handle with short-handed crew. Also your maintenance and storage costs will be far less.

Curmudgeon · 05-03-2010, 06:13

I'm a firm believer in the idea that a relatively unrestricted free market is a good indicator of value, i.e. you get what you pay for.

There is a reason why a 25-30 year-old Hinckley sells for about the same amount of money as a new Beneteau or Hunter. The Hinckley was built to last. It had the best components money could buy when new, and was likely refitted several times by wealthy owners.

The Beneteau or Hunter was built to a price point. The interior wood is veneer and the rest is plastic. They do have the modern conveniences, but sometimes a handhold is more important than a microwave. If the more modern boat is five or more years old, it may need a refit soon.

The rest is a matter of taste and economics. Would you rather drive an older Mercedes or a brand new Chevy Malibu, assuming the purchase price is the same? How much will each car be worth 5 years from now, assuming that both are serviced regularly?

My brother-in-law, an experienced sailor, gave me good advice. He said, don't buy a boat unless you love it, because the costs of owning a boat are outrageous, and you will resent every dollar unless you love the boat.

jkleins · 05-03-2010, 06:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

My brother-in-law, an experienced sailor, gave me good advice. He said, don't buy a boat unless you love it, because the costs of owning a boat are outrageous, and you will resent every dollar unless you love the boat.

I couldn't agree more. I hear many on this forum repeat the old adage to not "fall in love with a boat you are buying" so you can negotiate better and walk away if things don't work out. While that is great advice it never worked for me because if I hadn't already fallen "in love" with it I wouldn't be trying to buy it.

Disclaimer: I have always paid more for my boats then I needed to.

Jim

SailFastTri · 05-03-2010, 06:28

I find the idea of getting a boat to fit an anticipated lifestyle in 10 years totally unrealistic. I applaud the dream, but the "don't buy a boat unless you love it" advice is for what you need/want today. You can't put a ~50-foot boat on your fireplace mantle like a trophy and expect it to be the same in 10 years.

camtep · 05-03-2010, 06:45

"the times of the monster heavyweight for a cruising boat have passed,and when arriving at a distant anchorage,the first conversation that always comes up is that of a fast and comfortable passage..."

I don't think so.

Curmudgeon · 05-03-2010, 07:11

Yes, probably Bill Tripp's most timeless design.

Used Boat Notebook: From the Pages ... - Google Books

David_Old_Jersey · 05-03-2010, 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joli

Fun with family and friends.

Is that a Ketch or a Yawl?

Joli · 05-03-2010, 07:18

Ditto! 67,000 lbs of wave crushing fgrp.

By the way, the Bermuda 40 is lovely! It is and always will be a classic long after some of the newer boats are dimpled with print through like acne and the bulkheads standout on the hull like the ribs of an emaciated horse.

One of the great thing about free societies is that you get to buy what you want!

Quote:

Originally Posted by petmac

"the times of the monster heavyweight for a cruising boat have passed,and when arriving at a distant anchorage,the first conversation that always comes up is that of a fast and comfortable passage..."

I don't think so.