Older, Higher Quality vs Newer Production Boats

[captainKJ]

hi,
we have also been looking on line at that yacht but as we are in Australia were worried about being scamed etc , would you be able to let me know what your friends think of it and weather its all legit when they go to look at it , im very curious
Thanks

not a scam,,,, boat is legit, while I ma not there to look at it I do know the marina,,, it was right across were i kept my sailboat,,, when I speak to my friend later this week I will let you know what he says,,, I will make a call on your behale now and se what the marina has to say

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by sailstoo

There've been lots of comments and I don 't want to put too fine an edge on this but here's a couple of points.
a. Going older you can buy a $250,000 boat for $.20 on the dollar (or less) and that buys you a lotta maintenance. And by doing it yourself (or paying to have it done) you know what you have.
B. Keep a five year old boat a few years and you have those maintenance issues anyway.

AND you end up with a boat tailored to yours needs/requirements and abilities....

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by muskoka

Once you get beyond the marketing issues, most production boats are a glass vessel fitted out with the same infrastructure. They all share a host of common parts which bely the Ford/BMW/Mercedes comparisons. I own a 'Ford' with Yanmar engines, Jabsco this, and Lewmar that. And there is an insistance that 'quality counts', ergo, this or that brand is crap. Yet all are compiled from the same parts sourced from a few manufacturers. Whereas a Volkswagen shares no parts with a Peugot.

There can still be big differences. One 40ft boat might have lighter rigging, smaller Lewmar winches, etc -- the same brands and fittings, but undersized for cost-savings (while perhaps still appropriate for the target customer's use).

Originally Posted by eos2voyage

[...] I will never buy a boat with a bolted on keel. I will only have a fully encapsulated keel for cruising.[...]

Get an Island packet or Pacific Seacraft or any of the many other well known well built yachts designed specifically for offshore cruising. [...]

I love my PSC44, but have to admit it has a bolted-on keel. I'm not worried though, as it has a massive root, well-attached to the hull. This isn't one of those long, skinny blade-keels, waiting to be levered off the hull by the slightest unanticipated force.

[perchance]

I don't think it matters if you like fixing/maintaining boats or not. New or old it amounts to the same thing. The sea is a harsh environment and takes its' toll on any and all equipment. That being said, most mass produced boats are long on bells and whistles and short on substance. They are not designed and built for the knowledgeable sailor but for the starry eyed newbies and their wives who plan on short passages and many wind up as floating gin palaces. I don't think i would buy one that had any amount of hard use as I don't think they stand up to it. My vote goes to the older boats as you have a good solid platform to build on

[goboatingnow]

That being said, most mass produced boats are long on bells and whistles and short on substance. They are not designed and built for the knowledgeable sailor but for the starry eyed newbies and their wives who plan on short passages and many wind up as floating gin palaces

Conjecture and supposition. There's no evidence to suggest what you say is true. Lots of boats of all types end up as gin palaces ( and give their owners pleasure). But most modern designs ate just as hardly as older boats.

Dave

[NotQuiteLost]

I don't think that manufacturing methodology has improved that much in recent years. I do think there has been a bit of a paradigm shift though, especially as it pertains to 'cruising' sailboat construction.

The older thought process went about like most here suppose: heavy, big displacement and bulletproof so that when you get caught with your pants down, you'll be able to ride it out just fine.

The newer thinking is simpler: outrun the weather. With current CAD engineering and the dissemination of information on the internet, it's so easy to perfect a racing design, and modify it to make it more comfortable to live on at port.

We also have to remember that older generations didn't have the same type of access to the level of information (weatherfax, charts were generally less complete, etc..) that we do today. So if the choice was a bulletproof hull that costs you speed, or a thinner, faster boat, lots of times people had to go with the thicker hull just for safety around all those unmarked reefs, or dead head shipping containers.

I mean, affordable forward facing sonar to spot those pesky lost shipping containers floating two feet below the surface? That stuff would probably sound like science fiction to most sailors 50 years ago. I know a guy who's sailed for sixty years (in his eighties now) and only just bought a GPS five years ago. The reason? The local charts had gotten exact enough that he thought he could go nail the fish if he had the exact location of all those reef heads. The guy sailed for forty years with a sextant, coast light recognition book, freakin' oil lamps and *zero* house batteries.

Things have changed, but not in the ways we often think.

[nautical62]

I've purchased a few cruiser's including a 38 year old Westerly, a 20 year old Hunter and a brand new Beneteau. The only way I can justify the extreme depreciation my Beneteau has is because it's in charter and the income makes up for it.

The Westerly was a very economic boat to own, in part because I was willing to do some big projects myself.

It's great buying a brand new boat, but unless you have a lot of spare cash, I just can't see a justification for the high depreciation you will see. As others have said, the key to buying a used cruising boat is accuratly evaluating the work it needs.

[Joli]

All this discussion about suitability of older versus newer but nary a word about skantlings? Can you sail a boat around the world that was built to a skantling level that is defined coastal cruiser? Sure you can but I find it is best to buy and use a tool designed for the job. Just saying.

[David_Old_Jersey]

My vote would be for older high quality of both design and build, coupled with being in fundamentally sound condition - which means at least some good PO's. and ideally the last 5

I still wouldn't say "better" - that depends on wants & needs of each owner. and of course in the good old days they also built plenty of rubbish, even if some of it was solidly built.

Main advantage I see of an older boat is in general more boat for your buck, and with something that also requires some work (and priced accordingly) means you put the cash into the boat over time (as and when you earn it!) and get to learn the boat backwards in advance........rather than the cash going to a bank in interest and / or depreciation............not to say that the latter may not be the best option £££ and time wise - especially if buying an older vessel that turns out to be a dog........

[jackiepitts]

Originally Posted by nautical62

the key to buying a used cruising boat is accuratly evaluating the work it needs.

I totally agree with this statement.
The trick being how to accurately evaluate the work needed and the cost/time it will take to complete said work. Any suggestions from those who have taken one of these older boats and brought it up to cruising boat standard on what to look for or what to run from?

[sailorboy1]

so.............is the answer old high "quality" boat refit with new stuff?

[SvenG]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

so.............is the answer old high "quality" boat refit with new stuff?

"new stuff" would be properly sized quality components to match the old "high" quality boat.



-Sven

[jackiepitts]

Assuming the boat is structurally sound is there a order of things that will need to be replaced if it has not been dealt with in the last 20 years? A few things that come to mind are:
standing rigging
sails
engine
fuel tanks
electrical wiring
electronics
generator (if there is one)
What are your thoughts?

[IceMan]

Look into CSY's. 6 different styles to choose from and the most stout boat made of fiberglass. I know that the previous 4 or 5 owners of my boat were definately not boat people and I have alot of negect to rectify, but I know this old gal will put up the stupid stuff I have yet to do and will pull my chestnuts out of the fire. Just my 2¢ worth.
WD

[daddle]

Originally Posted by jackiepitts

Any suggestions from those who have taken one of these older boats and brought it up to cruising boat standard...?

Why set the bar so low? If by standard you mean typical rather than dream ... the typical cruising boat that is out there doing it likely does not meet a standard of any kind. The engine and sails will be tired. All the fittings worn but basically serviceable. Paint and brightwork patchy. Electronics having a midlife crisis.

...all the while supporting the owners happy lifestyle.