Old vs. NEW Sailboats for Cruising

[DSIMMIE]

Hey, long time reader here......... not many posts..
Love reading almost everyday.

On many posts I have read, there's a general agreement on that older boats are better built, and newer production boats are not safe.....

I understand the argument of older boats were just built heavier...etc. But, I never see, or have heard of major problems with the newer boats.

Also heard many times that the Newer production boats have crossed more oceans then the older.

I guess my question would be, what are some problems or failures from the new production boats that you have seen/heard of. (other then they are not built like they used to).

[Tayana42]

DSIMMIE, I think you will find some people prefer older heavier boats and some prefer newer lighter boats. Some like older traditional hull shapes with longer keels and skeg hung rudders and others like modern hull designs with fin keels and spade rudders. Each type has it’s advantages and compromises. Many experienced people will tell you that if initial build quality is good and if the boat has been well maintained a knowledgeable sailor can successfully cruise in an older boat or a newer one.

I do not believe all older boats were built better or stronger. Some were well built and some were not. I don’t believe all newer production boats are cheaply built or not strong enough for the purpose for which they are intended. Some are well done and some are too compromised to meet a marketing price point.

That said, I chose a 1989 fairly heavy double-ender with a modified fin keel, skeg hung rudder, lots of tankage, plenty of stowage and superb craftsmanship above and below decks. She is a wonderful sea-boat, meets my needs and I love the way she looks. Being of traditional design she has narrower spaces below. The canoe stern is in my mind lovely but has less room in the cockpit, no scoop stern and less area for an arch and solar panels.

Remember, quality of construction, quality of components and quality of maintenance are your determining factors. You will have to decide for yourself what you need and which type of boat will make your heart sing.

[donradcliffe]

One of the major problems with newer boats is that they are designed and built for sitting in marinas, not crossing oceans. They have wide open cabins and not enough handholds. They don't have any sea berths.

[Ibetitsthisway]

as said before -

it is not a genrell problem of "old and new". It is a "problem" of changing customer focus and market taste.
40 / 50 years ago the market was driven by the knowledge of how to make boats seaworthy. with compromise in space, weight, speed, etc. most boats were build that way.

for 20 years at least now customers (with more money but often less knowledge in boats) are buying space, speed, less weight and fancy design.
hence - marketing department has taken over from construction department.

you need to know what you want. summer family coastal cruising? modern boats are absolutely ok.
roaring 40th? Ice? around the world against the large currents?
go with the old and heavy mashines - or with modern specialized companies, if you think in numbers with 6 zeros.

[bimini blue]

40 years ago they used the knowledge of wood boat construction and design and used a new medium. Fiberglas same was done with surfboards
I grew up on a 1967 Columbia 31 Today I sail a 1995 beneteau oceanis 321 essentially the same displacement but longer waterline much faster with more room and amenities for cruising
Sort of like comparing a 1967 Chevy impala with a 2019 Chevy impala
Design makes the difference

[Howler]

There is split consensus on this topic. I would add that if you choose new, don't start your long distance cruise immediately. New boats will have defects and will need to be debugged. I've heard / seen it all: water in the bilge from poorly connected hoses, furling mainsails jamming because of wrong halyard tension, electronics not properly connected, etc. Make sure to discover and resolve these infantile issues on short day sails, while under warranty, and while close to your dealer's yard. Once you've had a full season without kinks, you're good to go. Other problems will arise, but at least the infantile defects from the factory should be resolved.

[Rowglide]

I think the majority of this is subjective. I absolutely love solid wood cabinetry, and a style that reminds me of a time that never really existed. I do love sailing on modern boats, they are faster, lighter, easier to handle in a marina, and well suited for entertaining, but I can't bring myself to owning one.
I'd love to see Beneteau or one of the other mass builders come out with a modern take on a double ended cutter with a significant bowsprit.

[waterman46]

You need to first and foremost, settle on the design characteristics you hold most important. This will be based on the intended use, coastal vs ocean passage, weekends only vs. long term liveaboard, etc. Read, Read, Read. It can get confusing and every design contains a huge number of compromises. Generally, don't go for extremes on anything.

Once you know the general characteristics, figure out what size range will be appropriate. The takes some experience, maybe ownership or at least using smaller boats first, but do the best you can.

After you know the general size and characteristics, you can start actually shopping. Now we are talking about real, actual boats for sale and your budget will narrow down the choices, unless you have unlimited funds.

Notice I didn't yet say anything about old or new. This is less important than the above. New boats have some good features not found in older boats, and the equipment on board will probably require less maintence for a few years. An older boat is filled with lots of gear that needs maintenance more often, that is what you get for a cheaper price.

My choice was, heavy cruising design, big size for comfort, older for low price and I accept that I'll have to replace and repair more often. But just do your own thing.

[Oceandeep]

It’s like comparing a greyhound to a Saint Bernard. Both can be great in the right environment. I chose a heavily built traditional boat but I don’t win many races. A friend has a similar size newer boat that is fast and sleek but when his bolt on keel bumped a rocky bottom it cracked some of the internal support structure and he got a $100 k repair bill.

[Mike OReilly]

My view is you’re asking the wrong question, or setting up the wrong dichotomy. It’s not old vs new, it’s well designed/well built vs. poor design/poor built.

There are some excellent “old” boats that were well designed and well built. They’ve been plying the waters for decades, and most will continue to do so for many decades to come. Likewise, there are some excellent “new” boats that have proven track records, and will no doubt continue to shine far into the future.

Each decade has seen ‘budget’ builders who are targeting a specific market. These are often the boats that aren’t designed to go long, or go far. You might argue there are more of these kinds of boats today vs previous decades, but they’ve always existed.

Look for a boat that will do what you want it to do. Look for one that is well designed and well built, and more importantly, makes your heart beat a little faster when you look at her.

[SteveSadler]

Having cruised extensively on both a 78 Gulfstar 50 and a 07 Jeanneau 49 Ds. Osmosis, broken bulkheads, leaky tanks, deck leaks, design flaws are common on last centuries boats. In mast furling, volumous interiors, tons of storage, way more stable, faster upwind and down, swimsteps, huge cockpit. Hands down a far better, stronger boat.
But if you want to be running into rocks and reefs, buy a long keeled, old boat.

[Tortuga's Lie]

As has been hinted at, building techniques and knowledge of the material has changed over the last 60 years or so. Back when fiberglass was an emerging boat building material, no one really knew how long it would last, so they over built the hull thickness, which on the surface sounds great!.....BUT.....what happened in reality was that the laminates were often resin starved and it really wasn't necessary to build a solid glass hull that was an inch and a half thick. Modern techniques will use vacuum bagging and deliver the exact ratio of resin to glass creating no voids, and a near perfect laminate. Some high end builders are using carbon fiber, epoxy(as opposed to polyester/vinylester), Kevlar etc....but it comes at a price.
So, I would say that a new,modern boat, built to a high standard will be as strong or stronger than a hull built in the 60's plus it will weigh less and be faster in general. You'll notice that I said nothing of the design of the boat (traditional full keel vs fin etc). I did that on purpose, concentrating on material and technique.

[DEAN2140]

One advantage of older boats is they are cheaper! That may account for some of the vintage oriented opinions. Yachting World hosts an ARC rally and they have a post cruise poll where participants list what parts failed, etc. You might find it on Google. IMO, buy the newest boat you can afford unless you know the pedigree in detail of the older boat. You wouldn't drive cross country in a jalopy; ditto for crossing an ocean.

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by SteveSadler

Having cruised extensively on both a 78 Gulfstar 50 and a 07 Jeanneau 49 Ds. Osmosis, broken bulkheads, leaky tanks, deck leaks, design flaws are common on last centuries boats. In mast furling, volumous interiors, tons of storage, way more stable, faster upwind and down, swimsteps, huge cockpit. Hands down a far better, stronger boat.
But if you want to be running into rocks and reefs, buy a long keeled, old boat.

GULFSTAR cut many many corners cheapwise in their boats.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by DEAN2140

One advantage of older boats is they are cheaper! That may account for some of the vintage oriented opinions. Yachting World hosts an ARC rally and they have a post cruise poll where participants list what parts failed, etc. You might find it on Google. IMO, buy the newest boat you can afford unless you know the pedigree in detail of the older boat. You wouldn't drive cross country in a jalopy; ditto for crossing an ocean.

Wow, it's funny you would say that.

Your boat appears to be a rather light weight version of an old full keel boat but with a fin keel

It's not as strong as the older boats.

As far as the jalopy statement, old full keel boats are made of very think fiberglass and they will out last you and I

We that buy old full keel boats to cruise are not talking about motoring across country with a beatup engine and bad tires, we are talking sailing across an ocean possibly without an engine and maybe limited power with possibly windvane steering!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r3mno5oo7s&t=195s