My problem is Which boat to buy?

[Cacique]

Looks like a good choice...."Allways choose the biggest you can afford"

[john jeffrey]

We are going through the same process, having looked v.closely at a Hunter 466 and now a Beneteau 473 (both 2003-4). The 466 had everything (plus more) but the lack of backstay and problems with the rudder decided against her. Now the 473 is the front runner - 2 cabin version, not so many gagets but enough. What is the problem with in-mast furlers? There is fresh water in the bilges which may be coming from the mast area (which i now know to be keel-stepped). Does anybody have any suggestions?

Regards
j.j.

[nonam]

JJ,look carefully for a water tank leak.Some Beneteaus have been known to have these.The water tanks are ,sort of,moulded in part of the grid structure,and some leaks are hard to fix.But if this is the case it shouldnt be a deal breaker.Just an excuse for a lower offer.

[nonam]

And of course you know to turn on the water pump and listen to how long it takes to shut off.Is it struggling?Run the faucetts,any air in there?With the pump left on does it cycle on and off for no apparent reason?
Is the boat berthed in a rainy climate?Then it may be the mast seal leaking.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by john jeffrey

There is fresh water in the bilges which may be coming from the mast area (which i now know to be keel-stepped). Does anybody have any suggestions?

Regards
j.j.

Hi JJ,

When filling the water tanks if someone shoves the hose hard down the filling pipe and then turns the hose on full bore the plastic tank might get over preasurised and split.

Look under the forward bunk and see if there is water there. That would then be a split in the forward tank. Fix with epoxy.


Look under the Saloon seats and see if there is water there. If so it will be coming from the water pump, strainer or one of the hoses or hot water tank.

Only other thought is that you are sailing in a fresh water river or lake and are sinking. Get off and swim.





Mark

[watson1990]

Hi,
While I am sure that many have more experierence than me,I have spent some time as captain of a 473 ...very nice boat and in 15 foot swells at 25-30 knots I was never worried ...she held her own quite nicely! Only thing I did not like about the boat is that the two aft "cabins" are merely large Quarter berths and not any way to make friends ..

I have also logged many hours on a Jeanneau 45 cc..I loved this boat..The center cockpit was great and allowed for two spacious cabins ,,,heck ,the aft cabin even has a bathtub !!! Enjoyed every minute on that boat . A few weeks as skipper on a dufour 43 ...A very fast boat tons of storage and depending upon which configuration you want ,there are many many options ..Good fast boat
I am just now begiining to search for my retirement boat . I was looking for a boat like Captden's vagabond. I love that boat . I have done some research and I am now looking at the "Force 50 " and the Formosa 51 ..quite a bit more room and still have the spacious aft cabin and a small work shop..
Take your time now,,,don't get antsy !! the prices will only continue to fall.The longer you wait the better you will be ...Remember : Commercial real estate is only now coming into the lime light and will surely be the next banking debacle ...you want to see the price of nice boats plummet !!! just wait .This blood bath is only just begun.
I will be making a post ,looking for help regarding the vagabond 47/force 50 /formosa 51 soon ...the first two boats are just that :47'and 50' the formosa 51 is 51' on deck ...actually with the bow sprit etc she is 59'9" !! BIG BOAT !!

[nonam]

Watson I dont want to start something with ya but I think the force 50/formosa does not compare well.They are so old they have all had at least one neglectfull/abusive owner.lots of energy required for their upkeep.Modern production methods are very clever at reducing the amount of maintainence required.And a boat like the 473 is so easy to sail.You can yank both sails out in about one minute and she trucks right along even if they are not trimmed well.What does it take to move a force 50?

[camaraderie]

Good choice on the B47. It will serve you well for your plans.

[watson1990]

Hi Nonam,
No problem here. please take note that i spoke highly of the benneteau 473 except that I had the 2001 with a great forward cabin but there were two aft "closets" ...The two cabin version would eleviate a lot of that problem.I also spoke highly of the jeanneau 45 and the dufour 43 .. They were good to me and now I am beginning to search for ME.I think that he would do well with the B47 or a jeaneau 45 .I just happen to like the CC boats .They allow for a nice aft cabin and they are smiley boats ! another boat that i would consider if i could fine one that was not 30 years old is the Cheoy Lee Passage . It is 41' and has an aft cabin ,though not enough room for even 2 & dog to spend 5-6 months on at a time.I believe that I would need something closer to 50'
I know that the old boats,,the force 50 and the F51 sail like a rock and i would prefer a "good turn of speed" but I am willing to give up some speed for a stronger ,heavier liveaboard that will also sail well,perhaps not as well as a Dufour or a J-boat..
I think the B-47 ,J45 or a Dufour would all be good boats.I have sailed them all for more than just a few weeks .
The B-47 i had ,had 4 water tanks and plenty of room .....It was a bit underpowered at 75 horsepower but thats not a major stumbleing block.Perhaps the newer ones had more power?
Please remember that I am not recommending a smiley boat for panama james ,,,but i like the layout for me !
no problem
W

[s/v Jedi]

I can second the Dufour's. Many people overlook them or never even heard about them but they are very nice and well build. I even think they are better build than Beneteau, Jeanneau, Hunter, Catalina etc. We had a Dufour 52 here in Colon and so many people came to look and ask what kind of boat it was!

I think the Formosa is a nice boat to live aboard too and these will allow you to get more room for the same budget but with less performance and more maintenance that come with the traditional designs.

cheers,
Nick.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I can second the Dufour's.... I even think they are better build than Beneteau, Jeanneau, Hunter, Catalina etc. .

At about 1.5 times the cost of the Bene they should be.

The new 525 looks superb.

Someone mentioned Dufour is in trouble? Its that more rumour milling?

[watson1990]

I can't help but wonder: the vagabond,,the force 50 et al . I keep hearing about how poorly they move when asked to ...Gotta get 15 knots of wind just to move her and you are reefing at 20 knots...
Obviously should I really attempt to purchase one I will spend coutless hours on her before making a decision .I am just trying to get an intitial feel for them . I hear that sailing one is as if you tied a refridgerator to a line and tossed it overboard and then entered a race... Now that I can't deal with . 5-7 knots under good winds ,,thats fine . Once I buy this boat I will be in slow motion to get anywhere,,,,but there will be times when I'd rather not spend the overnight in the middle of a traffic lane or simply stay up all night.
Perhaps there some out here in this forum that can suggest a place to look for a smiley boat that can actually get out of her own way ...
Any thoughts ,folks ???

Watson

[watson1990]

Oh Yes,
In mast furling on the B473:
I never had any trouble with the boat I had. granted i only spent 3-4 weeks on her.
The only thing i noticed [no big deal] was perhaps once every 3-4 days ,the main might catch for 4-6 inches here and there. If you had someone there at the mast, they could simply tell us to raise it and then lower again slowly..Only happened once or twice ... Nice boat ! the main cabin is VERY VERY nice !! . I don't know about the 2 cabin configuration but the 3 cabin sucked ..I think the 2 cabin would be great...
Funny thing: when ever we entered a harbor for water or fuel ,,,maybe ice,,we were always greeted with respect..it happend on the Jeanneau 45 as well, so maybe it was more a matter of training on their part ...but i will tell you : there were times when we were coming in for some kind of provision and all of a sudden there would be 3 dock hands waiting for us to throw our lines to and making sure that they fended off for us..i always carry 4 very large fenders ...One up front,one amid ships and two at the stern: one for that point 1 -2 feet forward of the stern and the other for that point ,,,that point when you fall off from the dock ,,,but the extreme aft 6 inches will very seriously rub the concrete pier ...that 4th one makes all the difference in the world .
One other suggestion: when you approach the dock for fuel ,,,always put a 20 in the hands of the first man out there .....Pocket change to us ,,,but they will go in and get you stuff,,,t-shirts [gotta pay for them ] ice ...all you want ...and they don't forget ............ever..But if you do this,you can not expect special service,,,just very good service...and you will get it ...

[Randall]

so as everyone here, as usual will tell you not to buy one of those boats that most have never been on or have owned one, and most likely think they have but have never been a engineer or put together a boat, but will tell you not to buy one based on this great knowldege passed down at the local pier and in the mags the read somewhere. Id suggest Buy what you think is best, one is older and is cheaper what I can tell you is that new is usually better but I have seen new boat in worse shape than old ones. Buy the one you think is right bases on your knowledge and talk to owners of the boat you are looking at not critic bases on what they have heard for the last 20 years.