Moody 39?

[GTom]

Are there any owners around, or someone extensively sailed a pre-1980 model?

How robust is the construction? (Solid or cored?) Is it prone to osmosis?
From the pics I found it seems to be a full-protected rudder+encapsulated keel, which are definitive pluses.

How does she handle high seas and gales? - This part is serious, I intend to do a North-Atlantic circle including Greenland in a couple of years.

How does she fare in light winds? I see the standard SA/D is quite sparing...

Chance for single-handing?

So far I found that loosing the rudder can be an issue.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Dockhead has a Moody 54' of much newer vintage, & might be a resource on Moodys. He puts several thousand nm per year on his, sometimes in some quite inhospitable conditions.

As to single handing, doing so is mostly about how a boat is setup, along with the depth of experience of her skipper (& crew). A good place to start is Andy Evans's book Resources | Singlehanded Sailing Society You can download it via the link, & of course purchase a paper copy. Also, he's a member here as well as over on Sailing Anarchy Forums. Over there his handle is Foolish, don't recall what it is here, but with a bit of searching, you can find him easily enough.

On sail area, the design in question is definitely not a boat for light air. So you may wish to entertain other candidates. And if you put up a post as to what you're intending to do with a boat, your experience level, budget, boat size range, etc. then people here are more than happy to make suggestions. And often times steer you towards candidates that are for sale.

[GTom]

Thanks for the book, seems really useful! As for goals:

- budget: 40k€ including refit
- cruising area: 50/50% blue water & coastal, including polar cruising (Iceland, Greenland) = the boat should handle everything nature trows at it (alright not planning to test the next hurricane season...)
- crew: sometimes just me alone, sometimes 5-6 people: initially I wanted a small boat but the family decided they want to join sometimes
- my experience: actually coastal skipper level but climbing the ladder year-by-year
- boat size range: something that can support 3 for a Transat and 5-6 for daysailing BUT shorter than 12m
- speed is not an absolute must but I don't like to go backwards in tidal currents...

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by GTom

Thanks for the book, seems really useful! As for goals:

- budget: 40k€ including refit
- cruising area: 50/50% blue water & coastal, including polar cruising (Iceland, Greenland) = the boat should handle everything nature trows at it (alright not planning to test the next hurricane season...)
- crew: sometimes just me alone, sometimes 5-6 people: initially I wanted a small boat but the family decided they want to join sometimes
- my experience: actually coastal skipper level but climbing the ladder year-by-year
- boat size range: something that can support 3 for a Transat and 5-6 for daysailing BUT shorter than 12m
- speed is not an absolute must but I don't like to go backwards in tidal currents...

The above info should help. Though finding & fitting out a 40' boat for 40k is going to be quite a challenge. Do you have a list of key boat characteristics ranked roughly by importance? If not, you need to create one so that it's easy to screen perspective candidate boats. Ann & Jim Cate have posted on this, along with their list a few times. As have I. Plus read my comments in the Sticky below about making a spreadsheet for comparing boats to one another, objectively. Especially from a fiscal standpoint.

Also, about family & others sailing with you. The old rule for screening whether or not inviting them along is to imagine them living with you in your bedroom for a week, nonstop, & locked in with them. As that's how much privacy & space you'll have.

Here's a "DIY boatbuying/selecting Sticky" which has some links that could prove helpful. Especially ones like Occupancy of Boats. And the fact that you should have all crew take the "Bowman's Union Test". The website that it was originally posted on is now defunct, but I've posted the text of the text many times in my time here. Probably to include in one of the links in that DIY Sticky.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2206710

[GTom]

What I would like to see in the "new" (of course 2nd hand) boat:
- Less than 2m draft (without compromising the ability to stay on a steady course)
- Two separate cabins (aft+fore) to provide some privacy on longer voyages when e.g. two couples are cruising. 6 is only interesting for receiving guests for a day.
- encapsulated keel, skeg-protected rudder for safety, solid construction
- should do 3kts in 6kts wind but shouldn't decompose in 55kts.

As for budget, I did see some usable listings

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

The above info should help. Though finding & fitting out a 40' boat for 40k is going to be quite a challenge. Do you have a list of key boat characteristics ranked roughly by importance? If not, you need to create one so that it's easy to screen perspective candidate boats. Ann & Jim Cate have posted on this, along with their list a few times. As have I. Plus read my comments in the Sticky below about making a spreadsheet for comparing boats to one another, objectively. Especially from a fiscal standpoint.

Also, about family & others sailing with you. The old rule for screening whether or not inviting them along is to imagine them living with you in your bedroom for a week, nonstop, & locked in with them. As that's how much privacy & space you'll have.

Here's a "DIY boatbuying/selecting Sticky" which has some links that could prove helpful. Especially ones like Occupancy of Boats. And the fact that you should have all crew take the "Bowman's Union Test". The website that it was originally posted on is now defunct, but I've posted the text of the text many times in my time here. Probably to include in one of the links in that DIY Sticky.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2206710

[Seeking Solace]

Moody's are from a 5 generation boat builder in England. Pre 1980 Moody is before Bill Dixon began designing them on his own. Angus Primrose built his first Moody 33 in 1972, this is when the Yachts became a product line. So you're only looking at 8 years before his was lost at sea. The boats built from 1972 -80 are solid hand laid boats and very blue water friendly.

Mine is an 83 designed by Bill Dixon. Wonderful handling boat and very friendly in rough seas and high winds. It's lineage comes from the pre 1980 boats, but is smaller at 27' 8", and nearly a foot longer than the Moody 28.

I can see a lot of detail in the construction that makes for a pretty solid boat. It doesn't creek or groan even in 30+ knots and in 15 foot seas nothing broke loose. It did buck and was very hard to control in a following sea. Self bailing cockpit emptied the water quickly and it points very close to the wind. Surprisingly roomy inside too. The only places that feel cramped are the aft berth and the head.

At nearly twice the length and probably a few additional feet wide the 39 is a big boat for the Moody line. You can find exact construction and coring information on all of the Moody's made from 72 forward. Hanse is making them now.

[GTom]

Many thanks for the feedback! Indeed, '70s Moody's were built to the Lloyd's standard. The same time the '39 is a very spacious design, 8 berths in a 40'-er became the norm decades later. I don't see many other options that provide robust design/quality materials AND plenty of space @39' and <50k€. Skeg protected rudders and encapsulated keels are simply disappeared from the industry (allright, you can always custom order something for lots of $$$$, but I'd like to buy a real boat from my real budget)

Another question: is the deck-hull joint properly bolted?

Originally Posted by Seeking Solace

Moody's are from a 5 generation boat builder in England. Pre 1980 Moody is before Bill Dixon began designing them on his own. Angus Primrose built his first Moody 33 in 1972, this is when the Yachts became a product line. So you're only looking at 8 years before his was lost at sea. The boats built from 1972 -80 are solid hand laid boats and very blue water friendly.

Mine is an 83 designed by Bill Dixon. Wonderful handling boat and very friendly in rough seas and high winds. It's lineage comes from the pre 1980 boats, but is smaller at 27' 8", and nearly a foot longer than the Moody 28.

I can see a lot of detail in the construction that makes for a pretty solid boat. It doesn't creek or groan even in 30+ knots and in 15 foot seas nothing broke loose. It did buck and was very hard to control in a following sea. Self bailing cockpit emptied the water quickly and it points very close to the wind. Surprisingly roomy inside too. The only places that feel cramped are the aft berth and the head.

At nearly twice the length and probably a few additional feet wide the 39 is a big boat for the Moody line. You can find exact construction and coring information on all of the Moody's made from 72 forward. Hanse is making them now.

[GTom]

Light wind performance doesn't seem to be too disastrous

[Dockhead]

I've never been on a 39, but they have a very good reputation, including pretty decent sailing performance. They are very strongly built (like all Moodys) but relatively light, actually very light compared to most boats of this era, but the rig is fairly small, which is good for windy latitudes but will be a bit dull in calm latitudes.

Concerning the hull-deck joint -- AFAIK all Moodys have fully through-bolted hull-deck joints, and also the bulkheads are fully through-bolted. Moodys have unusually good structures, and the only structural problem I've ever heard concerning any of them is weak skegs on some Primrose designs. Otherwise, they are built like brickhouses and you shouldn't have any concerns.

A boat that old is -- pretty old. Be careful about buying one which requires work which costs more than the boat will be worth afterwards, which is a very common situation for any boat of that age. On the other hand, a boat of that age which has recently been through a loving, no expense spared refit, could be an outstanding bargain.

[El Pinguino]

I don't think they are 'relatively light' for that era or any other era.

My boat certaintly isn't 'relatively light' by any means

SEALORD 39 (WESTERLY) sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

and she is only a few hundred kilo heavier ( mainly in the ballast area ) than the Moody

MOODY 39 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

which is very similar to this C & N


NICHOLSON 39 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Conservative sail plan? That's why they invented spinnakers..

My concern would be the skeg... I think it was one of these that was lost in the Indian Ocean in the early 80's due to skeg failure... case settled out of court ....

[GTom]

Heard about the weak skeg (and an associated lawsuit) as well. Still, I guess it wuold be a more solid solution than a spade rudder. Can it be strenghtened?

Entry price vs needed repairs are critical, I did see some ~30k£ offers but appatently no handyman touched the boat in the past 10 years. =survey, coatings, sails, engine, even electronics will add to the bill...

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by GTom

Heard about the weak skeg (and an associated lawsuit) as well. Still, I guess it wuold be a more solid solution than a spade rudder. Can it be strenghtened?

Entry price vs needed repairs are critical, I did see some ~30k£ offers but appatently no handyman touched the boat in the past 10 years. =survey, coatings, sails, engine, even electronics will add to the bill...

Its not so much skeg v. spade as the design and execution of the particular rudder.

I have no idea how the Moody skeg is attached to the hull but imho the skeg should extend through the skin almost up to deck level rather than just being tacked onto the hull...

Ditto my spade... the rudder post extends to within about 8 inches of the deck and is braced at three levels but I have seen some that barely extend 12 inches into the hull.... big diff on the loading they can withstand....

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Its not so much skeg v. spade as the design and execution of the particular rudder.

I have no idea how the Moody skeg is attached to the hull but imho the skeg should extend through the skin almost up to deck level rather than just being tacked onto the hull...

Ditto my spade... the rudder post extends to within about 8 inches of the deck and is braced at three levels but I have seen some that barely extend 12 inches into the hull.... big diff on the loading they can withstand....

Like virtually all small yacht skegs, they are simply glassed into the skin. Main function is to create a false impression of strength. Give me a well executed spade any day, but we're drifting here. .

[GTom]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Like virtually all small yacht skegs, they are simply glassed into the skin. Main function is to create a false impression of strength. Give me a well executed spade any day, but we're drifting here. .

It's all right, construction strength is a key buying argument for me, no SAR will arrive in time to save me & crew if something like this happens in the arctic/antarctic waters.

Glassing into the skin is problematic if the skin itself is weak I suppose? Shall I go back to research steel boats? (I did/doing, but unhappy with their continuous need for anti-corrosion service) Also very difficult to find the right design in steel, because of the metal boat market is microscopic compared to FG...

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by GTom

It's all right, construction strength is a key buying argument for me, no SAR will arrive in time to save me & crew if something like this happens in the arctic/antarctic waters.

Glassing into the skin is problematic if the skin itself is weak I suppose? .......

Nothing to do with the skin.. all to do with levers involved when you have a 4 foot skeg and a 12 inch bond where it is attached to the hull... looks like crap design from where I am standing....

Moving right along.... why not think about a Westerly Conway.. 1980 Westerly Conway 36 Sail New and Used Boats for Sale -

WOA boats

Same vintage.... big sister of the Discus/W32 family .... good enough for Bob Shepton to sail in the Arctic good enough for the rest of us... google Dodo's Delight.

They say they have skegs but they really have a semi-balanced spade on a stub of skeg.... different animal.

You would need to take a look at one in the flesh to see how the rudder post is actually set up.

Or you could consider the W'ly Corsair , little sister of my boat...

WOA boats