Looked at two boats - help me decide

[HeyHoLetsGo]

So I am currently shopping for my first boat (apart from a dinghy on a lake) for the baltic sea.
I've had a look at a Contest 30 and Westerly Longbow 31, both from the late 70s but in good condition. Had them inspected on the hard, no red flags but due to time constraints of myself and the sellers, I can only proceed to a sea trial with one at this point. I'm slightly leaning towards the Westerly, but still having a hard time to decide.

Which one would you choose and why? Any input is appreciated.

Contest

Pro:
- 5 year old Yanmar with 500 hours
- standing rigging is 6 years old
- roller furling headsail
- mainsail in slightly better condition
- electric windlass with remote, but motor will need replacement very soon
- more freeboard, cockpit feels very protected
- tons of storage space
- larger water and diesel tanks

Con:
- wheel steering
- currently no self steering at all
- rather small cockpit
- no cockpit table
- companionway is kinda hard to use
- 200Ah lead acid batteries, 4 years old
- last 20 years: single owner, sailed a lot, probably 15k nm
- communication with owner is kinda slow and I don't expect any help after sale
- ~22k for purchase, new wheel pilot and new VHF (my budget is 20k, not set in stone, though)


Westerly

Pro:
- tiller
- tiller pilot and wind vane
- larger cockpit
- removable cockpit table
- new sprayhood
- easy to use companionway
- interior is in very good condition
- diesel heater
- headsails in slightly better condition
- better head layout
- 300 Ah gel batteries, 3 years old
- small dinghy in ok condition, no motor
- EPIRB which (barely) passes battery check
- spares, service kits, etc. for most things
- current owner will help in a two day delivery, provide training and will be available for questions after sale
- last 20 years: 10 on the hard, refit, then two owners who sailed maybe 5-7k nm
- 18k ready to go

Con:
- 20 year old Volvo Penta with 1500 hours, but in good Condition
- standing rigging is a bit more than 10 years old, but in good condition
- hank on headsail
- manual windlass
- no wind instruments
- less freeboard

[GordMay]

You can use Carl’s Sail Calculator to look up sailboat dimensions in a large database of boats or enter your own boat's dimensions* and compare it to the others. In addition, for any boat you can calculate a set of values that will help you measure how it will perform.
➥ https://www.tomdove.com/sailcalc/sailcalc.html

* I didn’t see the Contest 30, nor Westerly Longbow 31, listed in the data base, so you’ll have to fill in the dimensions [of each], to calculate [& compare] the performance values.

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by HeyHoLetsGo

So I am currently shopping for my first boat (apart from a dinghy on a lake) for the baltic sea.
I've had a look at a Contest 30 and Westerly Longbow 31, both from the late 70s but in good condition. Had them inspected on the hard, no red flags but due to time constraints of myself and the sellers, I can only proceed to a sea trial with one at this point. I'm slightly leaning towards the Westerly, but still having a hard time to decide.

Which one would you choose and why? Any input is appreciated.

Contest

Pro:
- 5 year old Yanmar with 500 hours
- standing rigging is 6 years old
- roller furling headsail
- mainsail in slightly better condition
- electric windlass with remote, but motor will need replacement very soon
- more freeboard, cockpit feels very protected
- tons of storage space
- larger water and diesel tanks

Con:
- wheel steering
- currently no self steering at all
- rather small cockpit
- no cockpit table
- companionway is kinda hard to use
- 200Ah lead acid batteries, 4 years old
- last 20 years: single owner, sailed a lot, probably 15k nm
- communication with owner is kinda slow and I don't expect any help after sale
- ~22k for purchase, new wheel pilot and new VHF (my budget is 20k, not set in stone, though)


Westerly

Pro:
- tiller
- tiller pilot and wind vane
- larger cockpit
- removable cockpit table
- new sprayhood
- easy to use companionway
- interior is in very good condition
- diesel heater
- headsails in slightly better condition
- better head layout
- 300 Ah gel batteries, 3 years old
- small dinghy in ok condition, no motor
- EPIRB which (barely) passes battery check
- spares, service kits, etc. for most things
- current owner will help in a two day delivery, provide training and will be available for questions after sale
- last 20 years: 10 on the hard, refit, then two owners who sailed maybe 5-7k nm
- 18k ready to go

Con:
- 20 year old Volvo Penta with 1500 hours, but in good Condition
- standing rigging is a bit more than 10 years old, but in good condition
- hank on headsail
- manual windlass
- no wind instruments
- less freeboard

tbh, whilst both were wonderful Sailboats in their day, today, I'd give not just them, but any other boats of their era a complete miss as the odds of ending up with a bottomless money pit as frankly, boats do wear out and have limited service lives ? tbh, as a Classical period Sailor who has only ever had classical Sailboats, I'm not making that mistake ever again. My next Sailboat is going to be an ex Charter Sailboat newer than 2010 (actually I've registered an interest in several Jeanneau Sun Odyssea 2020 models coming up to phasing out from the Charter fleets for perspective, there's lots to choose from. and all of them will be a lot more comfortable than any of the Classics. Best of Luck with your search,search, and try not to Bankrupt yourself with a boatyard refurbishment that can take many years. Bob. 🤔🌟🌟🌟👍

[boatman61]

Have owned a Longbow back in the 90's which I sailed (with then partner) along the UK S coast and across to France and Guernsey etc before heading down to N Spain, Portugal and into the Med during a 4yr liveaboard experience.
Only problems in that time were a blown main, an exploding exhaust baffle which I replaced with looped hose with good results.. sailed extremely well, rode out a 2 day Biscay F9 SW gale well and was a comfortable liveaboard for two, plenty of storage space as PO had fitted doors into the saloon berth sides for easy access to large area below.
Only negative was the headlining which started to sag with age.
Would I buy one again..???
In a heartbeat if the headlining issue was already resolved..

[HeyHoLetsGo]

Originally Posted by Ribbit

tbh, whilst both were wonderful Sailboats in their day, today, I'd give not just them, but any other boats of their era a complete miss as the odds of ending up with a bottomless money pit as frankly, boats do wear out and have limited service lives ? tbh, as a Classical period Sailor who has only ever had classical Sailboats, I'm not making that mistake ever again. My next Sailboat is going to be an ex Charter Sailboat newer than 2010 (actually I've registered an interest in several Jeanneau Sun Odyssea 2020 models coming up to phasing out from the Charter fleets for perspective, there's lots to choose from. and all of them will be a lot more comfortable than any of the Classics. Best of Luck with your search,search, and try not to Bankrupt yourself with a boatyard refurbishment that can take many years. Bob. 🤔🌟🌟🌟👍

Well, I just cannot, with good conscience in terms of finances, spend 75k + VAT on an ex-charter boat right now. Besides that, the availability of those in the baltic is not as good as in the med, I suppose. So it's either wait or look for something old but well maintained. And thank you for your wishes!

[dlj]

You haven't said how you want to sail. That would make the decision process more focused.

From.my perspective, I would be more inclined towards the Contessa. The big ticket items are in better shape.

dj

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by dlj

You haven't said how you want to sail. That would make the decision process more focused.

From.my perspective, I would be more inclined towards the Contessa. The big ticket items are in better shape.

dj

Its not a Contessa, it's a Contest 30.. so it's a choice between USS Van Essen or Laurent Giles.

[dlj]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Its not a Contessa, it's a Contest 30.. so it's a choice between USS Van Essen or Laurent Giles.

My bad... It's early in the morning where I am and still on my first cup of coffee...

dj

[HeyHoLetsGo]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Its not a Contessa, it's a Contest 30.. so it's a choice between USS Van Essen or Laurent Giles.

It's the updated version of the 30 with a more modern hull design, built according to IOR 1/2 ton rules. From what I've read, people have quite conflicting oppinions about that general type of hulls.

Originally Posted by dlj

You haven't said how you want to sail. That would make the decision process more focused.

Of course so here is some broarder context:

I'll very likely stay in the baltic sea for a couple of years. Spend maybe 8-12 weeks a year on or near the boat. Half of the time in full vacation mode, and the other half working 3 days a week.

I've got a berth in a marina where a family member has a small vacation appartment next to it, which I can use when not occupied otherwise. There is also a nice anchoring spot nearby.

As for sailing, I'll probably hug the German and Danish coast for a year or two, doing day sails when the weather is good to (im)prove my skills and built routine and confidence. Eventually, I'd like to see Sweden and Åland which might involve an occasional overnight sail. I'm not a racer, appreciate a chill sail, will motor if needed, but prefer not to. At the moment, I don't have reguar crew as in partner, but friends will join me, although not all of the time. With some I've sailed dinghys or on a charter boat (neither of us as the skipper), some have no experience. Two guests max at a time.

Originally Posted by dlj

From my perspective, I would be more inclined towards the Contessa. The big ticket items are in better shape.

dj

You're right, engine and rigging is definitely a big plus for the Contest. That will likely have to be replaced on the Westerly, earlier. But the 4k price difference is like either rigging or half an engine, right? For now, both are fine, the Volvo is really well maintained, the older rigging not sailed as hard and small stuff seems in slightly better condition. I wonder if that evens it out...

[more]

Originally Posted by HeyHoLetsGo

Well, I just cannot, with good conscience in terms of finances, spend 75k + VAT on an ex-charter boat right now. Besides that, the availability of those in the baltic is not as good as in the med, I suppose. So it's either wait or look for something old but well maintained. And thank you for your wishes!

please where is possible buy 75k + VAT on an ex-charter boat

[Jim Cate]

A few comments:

1500 hours on a well maintained engine is not a worry. If you continue to do the maintenance you should get at least 5000 hours before major issues arise.

Having both wind vane and auto pilot is a huge advantage when you are often solo. Both are expensive and the vane can be a big project to install well. A major factor IMO.

Nothing wrong with a good manual windlass on a 30 foot boat.

I would expect significantly more than 10 years useful life for standing rigging in the Baltic area, especially if lightly sailed. Insurers may disagree, but there are tons of active boats with older rigs... still standing!

I'm not familiar with the wx in your cruising areas, but especially in a smaller boat, one spends lots of time in the cockpit... so comfort there and access and a good spray dodger are very important to your cruising pleasure. A major issue to me! (And I did around 25000 miles in my S&S 30, including a round trip from SF to Hawaii so have some experience in similar craft to back up my thoughts.)

While I like having wind instruments, tell tales will give much of the same info until you can pop for a new electronic one, sometime in the future.

Lastly, generic criticism of older boats as "worn out" is simply wrong. The hull and rig, if maintained, are pretty immune to age related failure and may well be more durable than a modern high production charter model of the same size. The other bits can be judged as to serviceability and replaced as needed.

Good luck with the decision and the cruising.

Jim

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by HeyHoLetsGo

So I am currently shopping for my first boat (apart from a dinghy on a lake) for the baltic sea.
I've had a look at a Contest 30 and Westerly Longbow 31, both from the late 70s but in good condition. Had them inspected on the hard, no red flags but due to time constraints of myself and the sellers, I can only proceed to a sea trial with one at this point. I'm slightly leaning towards the Westerly, but still having a hard time to decide.

Which one would you choose and why? Any input is appreciated.

Contest

Pro:
- 5 year old Yanmar with 500 hours
- standing rigging is 6 years old
- roller furling headsail
- mainsail in slightly better condition
- electric windlass with remote, but motor will need replacement very soon
- more freeboard, cockpit feels very protected
- tons of storage space
- larger water and diesel tanks

Con:
- wheel steering
- currently no self steering at all
- rather small cockpit
- no cockpit table
- companionway is kinda hard to use
- 200Ah lead acid batteries, 4 years old
- last 20 years: single owner, sailed a lot, probably 15k nm
- communication with owner is kinda slow and I don't expect any help after sale
- ~22k for purchase, new wheel pilot and new VHF (my budget is 20k, not set in stone, though)


Westerly

Pro:
- tiller
- tiller pilot and wind vane
- larger cockpit
- removable cockpit table
- new sprayhood
- easy to use companionway
- interior is in very good condition
- diesel heater
- headsails in slightly better condition
- better head layout
- 300 Ah gel batteries, 3 years old
- small dinghy in ok condition, no motor
- EPIRB which (barely) passes battery check
- spares, service kits, etc. for most things
- current owner will help in a two day delivery, provide training and will be available for questions after sale
- last 20 years: 10 on the hard, refit, then two owners who sailed maybe 5-7k nm
- 18k ready to go

Con:
- 20 year old Volvo Penta with 1500 hours, but in good Condition
- standing rigging is a bit more than 10 years old, but in good condition
- hank on headsail
- manual windlass
- no wind instruments
- less freeboard

If the roller furling is original parts are likely to be hard to find and I would not consider it a pro. That may still be true if the furler is newer but out of production.

I would only consider having an electric windlass if it had an option for manual operation when motor dies or batteries are very drawn down.

I would not pay for wind instruments so lack of them would not be a con to me.

Freeboard is a mixed bag. Lower makes the boat a bit more weatherly.
Higher means more room below.

The Longbow being 6” wider for a similar cabin length is going to feel bigger below.

Both boats being below 14 for SA/D means they won’t do well in light winds. But for the North Sea and maybe the Baltic should be fine.

Are you going to daysail or do extended trips?

For trips I would probably take the Lingbow.

[boatman61]

Also.. don't think the Longbow is a slow boat because of its boxy topsides..
We were anchored in Alderney once along with several other boats when we were advised to leave as a NE F8 was heading our way which makes the anchorage dangerous.
We headed for Guernsey along with the rest, one of which was a Sadler 34 with a full crew (7) who were trying to show us a clean pair of heels.. we (me +novice) held our own pretty much all the way much to the Sadlers disgust.
Being a lighter boat may have compensated for the WL difference

[Fore and Aft]

HeyHoLetsGo the newish Yanmar diesel is a big bonus and makes the Contest my choice. It also makes it easier to sell the Contest later with the newer engine.
Cheers

[sailorboy1]

when considering 2 boats, get the one that ................ speaks to your heart