Lewmar / Whitlock Steering Problem

[BMathews]

We own a 44' Contest sailboat built in 1983 (original yard name was Conyplex). We are preparing for a ~2 year voyage from Alaska to Mexico and possibly beyond.

The play in the wheel had increased a lot in recent months, so we took the top of the pedestal apart and discovered that the horizontal and vertical helm gears In the Lewmar (Whitlock) pedestal have moved apart and are somewhat worn. There is more wear evident on the vertical gear than on the horizontal gear.

We have been advised to go ahead and take things apart to see if removing 1 or 2 shims will eliminate the slack between the 2 gears, but we have not been able to get a schematic to show us what to expect on the inside. One issue is that the horizontal shaft tube metal housing is seized to the pedestal.
We have been advised to try to remove the shims. If that doesn’t help we may have to buy a whole new pedestal and we have been told that they are all custom built. We are hoping to avoid that expense, but not at the expense of losing steerage at a crucial moment down the road/sea way.
We have a few questions for the forum:

1) Has anyone else dealt with a steering problem like this? If so, how hard is it to remove the shims to see if that will remove the play, if you tried that? We are concerned that we could damage the entire pedestal in the process of getting at the shims, because of the seized metal pieces. (We have added lubricant to try to help these come apart.) We are reluctant to start taking things apart without a schematic to show us what we are getting in to.

2) If you have an older model Lewmar/Whitlock (or Mamba?) diagram (from the early 1980s) that you can email, that would be fantastic.

We have contacted the Lewmar representative in Connecticutt. He has been helpful, but he cannot locate a schematic for this older steering pedestal, although he has an inquiry pending with the Lewmar folks in the UK.

Thank you for any advice, materials, or contacts you might have on this.

BMathews

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcom aboard the CF, BMathews.

See the
Lewmar-Whitlock “MAMBA” Steering Installation & Maintenance Manual
➥ http://www.lewmar.com/cms%5Cassets%5...0Guide_web.pdf

[DeepFrz]

BMathews, hi, welcome aboard. I would like to suggest that you take this opportunity to inspect your whole steering mechanism as well as the pedestal. Good luck.

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by BMathews

The play in the wheel had increased a lot in recent months, so we took the top of the pedestal apart and discovered that the horizontal and vertical helm gears In the Lewmar (Whitlock) pedestal have moved apart and are somewhat worn. There is more wear evident on the vertical gear than on the horizontal gear.

1) Has anyone else dealt with a steering problem like this? If so, how hard is it to remove the shims to see if that will remove the play, if you tried that?

2) If you have an older model Lewmar/Whitlock (or Mamba?) diagram (from the early 1980s) that you can email, that would be fantastic.

We had a 12 year old Whitlock Cobra steering system, which we just replaced with an Edson CDi system - very similar in concept to the Whitlock but the details are better designed.

Whitlock unfortunately used stainless bolts tapped into aluminum castings in a couple places and they inevitably freeze and have to be drilled out.

My system had some plastic shims that fit in between the steering wheel bearing (just in front of the wheel, bolted to the pedestal with 4 Allen bolts) and the pedestal. If you remove these shims it allows the bevel gear to move forward into closer contact with the gear on the vertical tube. But that did not eliminate the play I was having.

I also had a bearing go at the bottom of the steering tube (just above the lever arm) which allowed the tube to bang back and forth (only a small way but it was annoying) in a seaway. And the inside of the vertical tube was dripping rust flakes down onto my batteries (Which are right under the steering system).

So, I did the shim deal, and drilled out some stainless bolts to get at the gears and replaced the steering wheel bearing but still had problems and just decided it was going to be better to get a whole new system than continue to throw money at the old one.

[BMathews]

Thank you GordMay, DeepFrz, and Estarzinger (Beth) for your helpful replies.

The Mamba manual is a good lead, but the schematics don't exactly match our (possibly older) system. Many thanks all the same, it is likely to be a useful resource for other sections of the steering system.

Beth: Thank you so much for your detailed reply and confirmation of some of the same problems. I downloaded information on the Edson CDI system, in case we get to that point. It is tough to know when to stop trying to repair vs. replace. We really appreciate the benefit of your experience and hind sight. We will likely try removing the shims; I'll let you know how that goes.

By the way, I am reading your book and loving it. Thank you for writing it. It has been a great help as we prepare for our voyage.

--BMathews

[CarlF]

You might also want to see if parts from the very similar Jeffa steering could help. Quality is very good. I believe that some of the Whitlock people went to Jeffa (but not sure). The US distributor is PYI -

PYI Inc. Max-Prop PSS Shaft Seal Seaview Radar Mounts R&D

Carl

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by BMathews

the Edson CDI system, --BMathews

The CDi is essentially a 'drop in' replacement for the Whitlock Cobra. We used the same bolt holes in the cabin sole and our wheel fit right on the pedestal. I do love the geared drag link steering - really nice steering feel.

I never managed to get ahold of a whitlock cobra manual either. There was a whitlock guy at Lewmar tech support for several years but he is gone now.

It is always a challenge to decide when to stop 'fixing' and move on to replacing. When I am somewhere with good facilities, for important stuff I often error on the side of replacing. I just did that with my seacocks and stuffing box and cutlass bearing. The old ones were acceptable but I was somewhere it was very convenient and easy to do the replacement, and any failure there later on in a more remote cruising location would have been much more difficult to deal with. With the less important stuff I error on 'fixing' and just junk it if it breaks somewhere remote that fixing/parts are not possible/convenient.

[nhschneider]

I own a Contest 48 ketch that is also equipped with the Whitlock Mamba steering system. Last fall, I replaced the engine (and generator and a lot of other things but that should be for another post or posts) and in doing so I had to remove the steering system. I am very familiar with the gears to which you are referring and they are serviceable and replaceable. Perhaps the biggest challenge you will face is getting the unit apart. The bearing carrier for the horizontal shaft (that connects to your steering wheel) will probably be the biggest challenge. Once I was able to get the screws removed (no small task for my boat is about the same age as yours), I fashioned a very crude press made of a large bolt, flat washer and nut. By using a socket from your toolbox that was placed against the bevel gear on the horizontal shaft and the head of the bolt against the forward side of the pedestal housing, the tightening of the nut and flat washer combination against the socket forced the carrier out of the pedestal. On mine, the bearing carrier was almost 6" long.

I removed the vertical shaft and it's bearings as well (not too difficult) and sent all of the aluminum Whitlock parts out for sandblasting and powder coating. I reassembled everything with new bearings, shims, etc and it all works perfectly. We just got back from 5 months of cruising in the Sea of Cortez and we had no problems with the steering.

I, too, had tried to contact someone at Lewmar who could help me with Whitlock parts but had extremely unsatisfactory results. When PYI, Inc. was the Whitlock distributor, every person there was an expert and helpful. I have eliminated B&G as an option for my new sailing instruments solely on the fact that Lewmar appears to have little interest in customer service.

We're heading back to Mexico next fall. Perhaps we'll cross paths somewhere along the way.

Fair winds and calm seas.

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by nhschneider

I have eliminated B&G as an option for my new sailing instruments solely on the fact that Lewmar appears to have little interest in customer service.

Mmmm . . . . a little off thread but . . . I think you are a little out of date. I believe Lewmar has not owned B&G since 1998, when Yeoman Group PLC purchased B&G.

In 2003 Simrad, acquired B&G Ltd from Yeoman Group Plc, and is (I believe) the current parent. Simrad is now owned by the Nordic Private Investment company Altor.

[Gerard777]

Whitlock documentations and many refurbishing pictures on:

Feeling 1090