Larger vs Smaller Boat

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by stevensuf

The smaller boat has EU tax paid, the larger boat does not, which would limit my use in eu waters, but i coud live with that.

If I understand it correctly, if you buy a non-paid vat boat (privately) in the EU and are an EU resident, then you are liable to pay the vat unless you export it outside of the EU within 30 days.

Unless you have a creative accountant I think it would be less of a headache to buy the vat paid boat. If you really want the non-vat boat make sure you have the vat money stashed aside just in case.

[stevensuf]

Thats one thing i dont get, even with the pound dropping against the euro all the cheaper boats are in the euro zone, dunno why , but they are. probably more ex charter boats there than here, lowering the local prices. I'd dsay the non mainstream boats are evenly priced throughout but the budget charter ones are much cheaper outside the uk.

dr dan can i ask why you thinks the vision model is less uited to offshore?

Im still leaning towards the larger boat, ive look at bavaria 46 cruisers in the 07 year and they are not that much cheaper thsn the vision 07 model never mind the 05 year 46 cruisers. i just think the newer larger boat represents better value for money , full stop.

[stevensuf]

god i really should read my typing after a few whiskies

[DrDan]

dr dan can i ask why you thinks the vision model is less uited to offshore?

Not a lot of handholds in the Vision nor a great berth at sea ... I also find the helm and surrounding area a bit more secure on the 46. If you really look carefully at the Vision series (which I do love) ... the actual space on the 50 is not much more than the 40!!!! really .... the 46 is more of a workhorse IMHO ...

In the end both are fine yachts with great hulls ....

Enjoy the whiskey

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by stevensuf

Thats one thing i dont get, even with the pound dropping against the euro all the cheaper boats are in the euro zone, dunno why , but they are. probably more ex charter boats there than here, lowering the local prices. .

Yes and how about a stigma about owning a former charter boat. In UK terms you are shopping for quite expensive boats. Lets be honest, a dustman isn't going to be able to afford a 46ft yacht, so potential owners could have a snob outlook.

Don't forget the charter boat market will have re-claimed the VAT on purchase so it will need to be considered when you buy and certainly liable if you want to keep her in the EU.

Pete

[speciald@ocens.]

We moved from a 44 foot boat to a 58 foot boat and lived aboard for 7 years. The larger boat was not only faster but much more comfortable. It displaces twice what the 44, carries three times the fuel. Both had gensets, a/c, and refrigeration. The larger one also has a watermaker. We have put more than 30k miles on the boat and have never had any difficulty short handling the boat. Note that the larger sails require electric winches for furling and trimming. By the way, we have moved back ashore and are now selling the boat, a 2003 Taswell 58AS - see avitar. It is the last made by Ta Ching and is a perfect world cruising boat.

[limejucer]

Air con, Lidil/aldi did a portable Aircon unit for under £200 that could be fitted to dorrade for exaust system with a cheap gen i think you could be onto a winner there.
pm me if u want to talk as i have one hardly used in garage
Limejuicer

[Bash]

I'm not familiar with either boat, but in 2006 we were faced with a similar quandary, although we were dealing with new boats. We ultimately opted for a 46-footer, and have been delighted with how liveable/cruisable it is. Big enough to make a fast passage, small enough to take out for a daysail. Easily sailed by a couple. It's the first time we've ever had more storage room than we really need, having moved aboard this from a 41-footer that we lived aboard for eight years.

Hard to imagine feeling crowded on a boat this size. That said, if someone offered to trade me a Taswell 58 straight across, I'd be willing to try a bigger boat.

[rourkeh]

decisions, decisions!
sounds like you are working your self into a frenzy. definitely get the air and generator, it WILL add value in almost any market you go to sell the boat in later and you will thank yourself later. I bought a/c and a gen for my boat as part of the refit and the cost was very low after shopping around a bit. What ever you do, do not buy mainstream a/c from a manufacturer like cruisair or marineair they are crap and will blow up guaranteed. Make sure you get as small a gen as possible and that it runs at 1800 rpm, not over 3000 rpm or the noise will drive you nuts. Also the life span of the high revving gens is much shorter. I would opt for the smaller boat unless you have a wife and 4 kids, 46 feet is big for a blow boat. When I bought my current boat I kept it at 44 feet for a reason, anything bigger is A LOT more work to sail, maintain, and pay for as you travel about. 52 feet may look fabulous at the dock but think it through. Good luck.

[roverhi]

From our experience, the people enjoying their cruise the least were those who had the most toys. The only exception were those who had enough money to hire a captain and then it was the captain who was miserable. Toys seem to take on a life of their own and enslaving the boat owner. Keeping everything running becomes their raison d'etre. The spen their time going from major yachting center/commercial harbor to the next major yachting center/commercial harbor in search of the technical expertise to fix their inop. toys. Heaven help the cruising budget as it's all gone down the rathole fixing and/or replacing toys.

It seems like most of the toys like bow thruster, generator, air conditioner, etc are there just because it's a bigger boat and needed to meet the expected lifestyle of a 'BIG' boat owner.

Age doesn't have a whole lot to do with it. Once things are much more than a year old, they are subject to malfunction and the more electronics involved the more they screw up. By the time they are five years old, they have exceded their useful life expectancy and are in constant danger of going out on strike.

[stevensuf]

yeah ive seen those portable aircon units, i looked at a 1350w 12,000btu unit, which evapourated the water on the hot air coil and had a vent like a tumble drier so you just put the hot air tube out a window, couple a small 2kw portable generator with a shore power adapter and away you go, charge batteries, heat hot water tank and cool interior in one go and very cheaply compaired to anythign marine, granted id not expect a huge life span out of them, but hey a couple of years of an hour a day use i think theyd last and cost would only be 400 quid.

Another thought is the lwl on the 46 cruiser its 40 foot but on the 50 vision it is 49,9 making 1.5 mile an hour hull speed difference, which is a fair amount on a longer passage.

As for extra toys meaning more systems meaning more chance of something going wrong im well aware of this, though i think electronics wise if it doesnt break in the first 6 months it will last a long time. something simmilar with mechanical devices as well, but again they are prone to ware with use. Though i cant see that many systems failure occuring on a 3 years old boat, yeah maybe once they get to ten years old things will start to break at a fairly alarming rate.

Myself personally i dont think i could be a slave to the toys, if the gen went down **** just buy a cheapo 200 buck land based one, then sort it out when youve got nothing better to do or can have it done cheaply same with aircon.

I did mechanical electronics at uni, or mechatronics as they called it and a lot of amatuer car mechanics when younger, ie no money so you either fix it yourself or dont have it, no option to pay someone else to do it, so to be honest most repairs
i could do myself, when i could be bothered that is

Pros n cons time...

Big boat -
pros faster, more space,far more toys, better motion , safer in a blow. greater load carrying ability, though only a small pro as a 46 should carry all i would need anyways.

cons more expense (fuel, marinas, lift/antifoul) i will ignore rigging and sails due to age,more toys that could break, greater initial cost, but greater resale value. more toys that require upkeep.

small boat
pros - cheaper (fuel,marinas, lift antifoul) , less toys to go wrong, cheaper initial outlay
cons - less space, slower, poorer motion, less safe in a blow, less toys.less load carrying ability, probably more motion at anchor

[stevensuf]

SpecialD , i had a search for your boat, lovely.. a little bit beyond my budget, Flash bstard lol she looks beautiful.

[deepstar]

How many people are you planning on sailing with ?

You may find that the bigger boat requires 2 people to do a job which can be done at a push with 1 on the smaller yacht.

[stevensuf]

I will be with my other half and more likely will have friends and family aboard at various stages or take on unpaid crew for longer legs, there is never an end of people looking to gain a free berth and experience, nb the larger boat does have 2 electric winches.

[stevensuf]

nb both have roller furling jibs and in mast furling mains, i know a compromise in performance, but one id sacrifice for being able to do most of the work from the cockpit.