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**boatman61** · 23-02-2011, 07:45

Basically I think the OP's decided which boat he's going for by his defense of the larger boat every time someone sings 'Smaller'...
In the end all our speculation/advice/arguments are superfluous, even the choice of a Bavaria... when you walk through Brixham Marina.. PHYC... where ever and see them tied up they do indeed look impressive.. so maybe he should go for it... if we're lucky he may return on here one day after doing some serious crossings (eg Biscay) and experienced bad weather maybe he'll tell us why he decided to sell...

stevensuf · 23-02-2011, 14:08

the 50 vision has an avs of 121, what does avs tell us?

As far as i know, it tells us how far a roll can go before the boat is likely to immediately self right and how stable it is upside down, but bear in mind it will take a far greater wave to roll a 40 foot boat with an avs of 121 than a 50ft boat of 121 avs. Now a wave with enough energy to roll a 50 ft boat will roll the boat regardless of its avs, whther it is 120 or 150 both boats will roll (given roughly same weight) the boat with the 150 avs will most likely self right quicker as it is less stable turned turtle and will require a smaller wave to self right. (please correct me if i am wrong in any of this).

This i why i say a 35 ft boat with higher avs is not as good as a 50ft boat with lower avs ie why you are better to get a bigger boat than a smaller more seaworthy boat, you have far less chance of being rolled in the first place. is it not better to get a bigger boat that is far less likely to be rolled in the first place, than a smaller boat but with better numbers but will be rolled by a far smaller breaking wave, bear in mind it only takes 12 foot of breaking wave beam on to roll a 40 foot boat.(mono) if a cat you can double that then add a bit. One of the findings from the fastnet disaster was that not one boat over 45 feet in length was lost, and that neither make nor seaworthyness nor skipper skill made very little difference, size was what mattered....

one of the reasons i wanted a boat of 45 foot or over.if in doubt of what i say please correct me or check the physics involved as i spent a few months reading the physics on just this subject. as for those advovating older designs, he beam of the boat was what counted, sure a beamier boat may roll more, but the breaking wave has to approach the beam size in order to roll the boat , so a narrower boat will roll in a smaller breaking wave, it may have a more seakindlier motion but when it comes right down to being rolled it , will roll with a smaller breaking wave than a beamier boat.

Id rather be tossed about a bit more and have more resitance to being rolled. As for bavaria , yeah they aint the best, but hey there are over 50,000 of them on the planet, and ive yet to find one sory of one sunk by a storm. there was a problem with the match series with bad keels/keel support and these were light weight racers rushed into production.

boatman 61 i worked in the north sea of scotland in a 35 foot fishing boat for 2 years, granted it would certainly not be a place id take a yacht willingly, but ive seen some very large seas and skippers with a large catch thats going to go rotten wait for no storm. I maybe be new to yachting as things go, but im certainly not new to the sea,

downunder · 23-02-2011, 16:25

Looks like the larger boat it is.

Has been an interesting and well thought out discussion.

**boatman61** · 23-02-2011, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevensuf

boatman 61 i worked in the north sea of scotland in a 35 foot fishing boat for 2 years, granted it would certainly not be a place id take a yacht willingly, but ive seen some very large seas and skippers with a large catch thats going to go rotten wait for no storm. I maybe be new to yachting as things go, but im certainly not new to the sea,

Well there you go mate... two years in the North Sea on fishing boats with tough skippers... a hard life..
Have fun out there... I wish you well..

VirtualVagabond · 23-02-2011, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

In case Jedi breaks my bank account I have a backup plan with retractable bowsprit too

Ciao!
Nick.

From Jedi to YODA!... you could do worse

Vic

marknfish · 10-01-2012, 09:45

I guess its too late to add my two cents but I just read this post today. My personal advise is that if money is consideration then take the cheapest option, or neither.
I would not buy any boat unless I was wealthy enough to not worry about the financial ramifications of my purchase.
The stress of the costs detracts from the experience the boat was probably intended to bring.
Rent a boat for a month or a condo by the sea and take a few charters etc.,

If one cant buy a boat and not have to worry about the effect the decision has on ones lifestyle then what kind of a lifestyle is it.
Id ask myself if "I own the boat and live the experience with is and end up with a total write of with my investment will I feel the investment was worth it and have no regrets" and the answer is "yes", then buy the boat. If the answer is no then you cant afford it and charter a cruise

cheers
Mark

barnakiel · 10-01-2012, 12:45

46 can be a big boat already, so go for the bigger one only if the 46 is too small for what you want to do with it.

b.

sailorboy1 · 10-01-2012, 14:41

So .................. size does matter! And even if you think you are big, there's something bigger!

Kojiro · 10-01-2012, 15:35

I think you'd be better off with, say, a 44 Vision owner (3 cabin) if Bavaria is what you are looking at.

The 46 and 50 are I think 4 cabin versions. All you get for the extra cabin is a compromised saloon area...galley gets pushed into the saloon rather than being left separate. And how many cabins/people do you really want to be sailing with?

As for speed and handling there's a lot that the skipper, rather than the boat brand and design can be "blamed" for.

As for more than 45 feet.....you could sail it own your own probably but will generally be limited to finding crew which may be a pain at times...finding them and compatibility.

Everyone else has talked about marina costs, maintenance, etc.

Mid 40's should be enough IMHO.

**boatman61** · 10-01-2012, 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

So .................. size does matter! And even if you think you are big, there's something bigger!

LOL.... thats how I felt in '95 when I moved from a Virgo Voyager 23 (liveaboard) to a Westerly Longbow 31 (also liveaboard)...
suddenly I was one of the big boats..
I felt pretty secure in that all the way down from the UK and through the Straits of Gib... and still pretty good up the Spanish Coast...
Then I sailed into Palma, Mallorca....

sailorboy1 · 10-01-2012, 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

LOL.... thats how I felt in '95 when I moved from a Virgo Voyager 23 (liveaboard) to a Westerly Longbow 31 (also liveaboard)...
suddenly I was one of the big boats..
I felt pretty secure in that all the way down from the UK and through the Straits of Gib... and still pretty good up the Spanish Coast...
Then I sailed into Palma, Mallorca....

A lot of words, but I think you are saying ..................... you're small!

Morrissey · 10-01-2012, 18:13

So no word from the OP about what he decided? Maybe the house hasn't sold....

Seems to me that biggest you can afford with a conservative living/maintenance/repair budget is the way to go. I have been looking at 46ft, should be big enough but very hesitant due to its 6'6" draft. Given that I'm in Queensland and expect to be in the shallow tropics for a lot of the time. Any more views on limitations of draft over 5'?

Jim Cate - seems you've cruised as long and far as anybody, and are quite pragmatic. I saw earlier that you were quite happy with a fairly deep draft. Have you done much in the tropics? A lot of people argue that although you can get by with the deep draft, there is so much more flexibility and anchoring options with a Cat or even a displacement motor cruiser......