Help Getting Info on my 1979 Cheoy Lee

[JRSHAW]

Greetings
I just bought a 1979 Cheoy Lee 38.
I love her already and can't wait to get her in the water.
When I bought her she had her prop shaft out and rudder out.

I was getting ready to replace her when I realized that she has an odd size cutlass bearing, the prop shaft was damaged and I recently read that she has an inner 3 or 3.5" cutlass bearing of some kind.

Help me with my thinking.

She had a metric cutlass bearing and housing and I couldn't find anything to fit.
(Cheoy Lee Association had no answers)
So, I had a new prop shaft made to standard US measurements and had a new outer cutlass bearing housing made to fit.

Question? Is there really an inner Cutlass bearing? If so I guess I have to figure out how and where to put it? Have I messed up by having the new prop shaft made?
Where do I get a 3 or 3.5" METRIC cutlass bearing?
Have it made?

--------

Also, it has an emergency rudder access -- has anyone ever had an emergency rudder made to fit on these?

[rbk]

Should have found a cutless with a slightly larger outside diameter than your housing inside diameter, taken the bearing to a machine shop and machine the outer brass to the desired OD. What are your shaft and housing dimensions?

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by JRSHAW

Greetings


Help me with my thinking.

She had a metric cutlass bearing and housing and I couldn't find anything to fit.

So, I had a new prop shaft made to standard US measurements and had a new outer cutlass bearing housing made to fit.

Question? Is there really an inner Cutlass bearing? If so I guess I have to figure out how and where to put it? Have I messed up by having the new prop shaft made?
Where do I get a 3 or 3.5" METRIC cutlass bearing?
Have it made?

Google:
Metric cutlass bearings. 410,000 results.
Metric cutless bearings. 15,400 results.
Stave/Sleeve bearings. 426,000 results.

An excellent how to guide for replacement:
https://marinehowto.com/replacing-a-...leeve-bearing/
Snipet therefrom:
"Before we move on I should address the issues of the words cutlass vs. Cutless®. The word Cutless® is a registered trademark of Duramax Marine® LLC. It is a BRAND NAME for a sleeve or stave bearing.

Duramax purchased this name, and product, from Firestone Rubber many years ago. When Firestone developed the product they named it the Cutless®. Cutless® is a branded product name. People call soda “Coke” all the time, even if it is not the brand they are drinking.

Over time the marine industry began using the spelling cutlass perhaps because a windlass is not a windless, I don’t really know, but it happened. The long and short is that over time the word spelled cutlass has become an industry wide accepted generic term whether Duramax likes this or not. It is very tough to change history after it has evolved.

It should be noted that Duramax strongly disagrees with anyone using the term cutlass, with an “a”, as they feel it is simply too close to the word Cutless®, which is their brand of a stave or sleeve bearing. They feel using the word cutlass is intentionally misleading."


Most of the world might use the metric system but when they want a big ass television they ask for 75 or 80+ inches.

[JRSHAW]

Yeah, I thought of simply turning down a Cutlass bearing, but since I had to have a new prop shaft made I thought I would try and make everything to standard US standard so that future repairs would be easier later

But i didn't know about the inner bearing and now I'm not sure where to go from here

Thanx for the reply

[Montanan]

JR, I'm a bit unclear as to your issue, what do you mean by: "I recently read that she has an inner 3 or 3.5" cutlass bearing of some kind." ?

Do you perceive that there are two cutless bearings on your vessel, perhaps one near the prop and yet another in the hull towards the transmission?

Is the "inner" / second? bearing different from the one you had fabricated a replacement housing? Do you have pictures or drawings that you could share with the forum to clarify your boats drive train?

You stated that the cutless bearing on your boat was "odd size", what size was the bearing, OD / Length / and ID if you were able to discern such say from the original shaft diameter?

I am familiar with vessels having just one cutless bearing, but I could envision there being two bearings for stabilizing a long shaft and those two would need proper alignment.

You opted to have made as a replacement a standard [non-metric] dimensioned shaft and a standard dimension of inner diameter cutless bearing housing, so it would appear that you now just need a standard dimensioned cutless/cutlass bearing to fit between the newly fabricated standard dimensioned housing and the shaft. When you had the shaft and bearing housing fabricated did you specific dimensions that would provide for a specific standard [non-metric] cutless bearing outer and inner diameters and lengths? If so then just purchase such previously specified bearing.

[Greg Mason]

My 1988 Cheoy Lee was standard size, not metric, as she was built in Hong Kong at the Lantao yard. She also had a plaque on the bulkhead showing hull number and year of construction. Cheoy Lee may have some manufacturing info for you. I also had the reverse mount engine and Borg Warner gear with a grease cup, but only one cutlass bearing for the 1 1/4" shaft. Hope this helps.

[JRSHAW]

This was taken from a blog online about Cheoy Lees INNER Cutlass Bearing

And that brings us to the stuffing box.



The orange dust you see here is called ‘Phillybond’, a flexible stern tube sealant. It turns out that in addition to being bolted into the hull, the stuffing box was also threaded onto the stern tube, and sealed with Phillybond epoxy as well.



Another view, to show just how deep this is set in.



First round with hydraulics only managed to remove the very much crudded-up collar that (theoretically) directs water around the shaft, but not the cutlass sleeve.



This was going to require a bit more pressure…



And victory at last!



But why was it so hard to remove the sleeve? Perhaps another hidden set screw, also hammered down and ground smooth then covered under years of age?



There it is. And here it is, the reputedly non-existent inner cutlass bearing.



And not surprisingly, this bearing is the same inner and outer dimension as the outer cutlass bearing. The inner diameter of 1.75″ is easy enough. It’s that outer dimension that makes things interesting. It’s 62 mm or 2.44″, a size we’ve discovered is harder to locate than you’d first imagine. And that’s where we are

Thanx for replying!!!

[JRSHAW]

Hi Greg

Thanx for the reply. I think we have two different boats. The '79 I am quickly realizing is all metric and it does have the inner Cutlass

I am excited about meeting another CL owner.
Any trouble with your rudder?
Any tips on your boat repairs and nuances?

[TrentePieds]

I woulda thot that while the bearing in the aft end of the stern tube is indeed a cutless bearing, the inner bearing is NOT a cutless bearing but a stuffing box. They are two entirely different beasts, doing two entirely different jobs.

A "cutless" bearing is just that. A bearing not subject to being "cut". It functions by LETTING WATER IN to serve as a continuous flush and lubricant to keep silt and other abrasives that could "cut" (abrade) the bearing out of it.

Because there must then necessarily be water in the stern tube, there now has to be provision for keeping the water OUT of the next bearing in line, i.e. the one at the INNER end of the stern tube, lest the water should get into the boat, flood it and sink it. This bearing is called a "stuffing box" because it, traditionally, had provision for a cord of cotton, impregnated with tallow, being "stuffed" into it. On the forward end of the stern tube there is a "gland", a big nut with a tapered bore, that squeezes the "stuffing" tight around the prop shaft and jamsthe stuffing up against the fore face of the actual bearing so that no water can get into the boat. You adjust the "squeeze" by turning the nut so that a single drop of water emerges every three seconds or so. This lubricates and cools the stuffing.

There are many modern "improved" designs of stuffing box permitting you, at considerable expense, to avoid the three—second drip. Your boat may have one of those. You will then need to contact the manufacturer of the device to determine the dimensions of this inner bearing and ensure that you obtain and install the one appropriate for the diameter of your new shaft.

Oh, for the sake of completeness and terminological exactitood: A "cutlass" is a shortish sword with a wide, slightly curved blade much favoured by belligerent sailors of old :-)

All the best

TrentePieds

[sainted]

It would be helpful to know which Cheoy Lee 38 you have. Is it the Offshore 38 designed by Ray Richards? My son has one. It's a cool boat. I believe that it does have a second cutlass bearing at the forward end of the stern robe near the shaft log.

[Montanan]

References:



http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ing-64445.html

https://cegrundler.com/tag/cheoy-lee-2/"]https://cegrundler.com/tag/cheoy-lee-2/[/URL]

[Montanan]

Reference to images of inner cutless bearing.

https://cegrundler.com/2011/07/18/a-...-two-bearings/

Snipet:

"the reputedly non-existent inner cutlass bearing.



And not surprisingly, this bearing is the same inner and outer dimension as the outer cutlass bearing. The inner diameter of 1.75″ is easy enough. It’s that outer dimension that makes things interesting. It’s 62 mm or 2.44″, a size we’ve discovered is harder to locate than you’d first imagine. And that’s where we are now, trying to track down two cutlass bearings with outer diameters of 62 mm.

We have a plan B and even a plan C, but ultimately the ideal would be plan A – replace these bearings apples to apples. Surely with all the trawlers and sailing craft coming out of Hong Kong during the seventies and eighties, ours can’t be the only boat built with bearings of these dimensions.

Update: presently we may have located a Duramax bearing with an outer diameter of 65 mm and an outer wall thick enough to be machined down to 62 mm. It’s a start but I’m still curious if there’s anything that starts out at a closer fit."

How in the heck does a yacht builder align the hull fittings so that the two cutless bearing run true as to supporting and not bending the shaft?

[masonc]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Most of the world might use the metric system but when they want a big ass television they ask for 75 or 80+ inches. [emoji3]

That's known as naming rights. When you are first, you get to define the names for everything. It's hard to change that once established.

[masonc]

For anything metric, send an email to Budget Marine in St. Maarten. They stock metric components and know all about shipping stuff.

[TrentePieds]

JRShaw:

Further to what I said before: Boats are not like cars. You can't to an equivalent of NAPA Auto Supply, state the model and year of your boat expecting that they can look up the part number of the gizmo you need.

Boats' equipment and fittings may vary from boat to boat of the same type, model and year, so in a case like yours, you need to know the DIMENSIONS of what came out of 'er, and then you have to hunt for the equivalent. Your boat is a full keeler with an old fashioned stern tube. When you have extracted the cutless bearing from the after end, you can clean up the bore (a cylinder hone works). Then you measure the inner diameter of the tube. That gives you the required OUTER diameter of the bronze tube that is the body of the cutless bearing. Then you clean up the shaft (fine Wet&Dry "sandpaper" worked wet works). Then you measure the diameter of the shaft. That gives you the INNER diameter of the cutless bearing. Then you go here:

https://www.deepblueyachtsupply.com/...etric-bearings

and find one that will fit.

You cannot reasonably change the stern tube in a boat such as yours. Therefore the OD of the bearing you need is ABSOLUTELY given by what you measure. The tube and shaft diameters will originally have been chosen to match the dimensions of available bearings. Since you have changed your shaft, it may be that you can not find such a match. Then your only recourse is to choose a bearing that has the precise OD required for your stern tube, but an inner diameter that is SMALLER than the OD of your shaft and ream out the bearing to match.

TP