Guns on board. Yes/no

[Tetepare]

This isn't about guns it's about going where one should not go. Somalia? Libya? There is adventure and there is stupidity.

Armed professionals on ships carry multiple belt fed weapons which even then are not intended for use against the mother ship. Even a 70' pleasure vessel could not carry sufficient firepower. If the Somalis get even one RPG within range (which they seem to do even against professionals) you are done. A gun or a 106 won't be anywhere near enough. Fools who think they can go where they should not just make it harder on everyone else and endanger others' lives. Stay home.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Cherod

Well I hope they don't , I expect that this theme has been done to death many times but as a newbie I have seen very few , I know the basics of both sides. I would like to read more .( some very interesting reading in the Isis Philippine thread recently ) I am certainly no Rambo type and appreciate the risks of escalating a situation , but ? ( is there a but ? )

There are MANY previous "gun threads" in CF.

Here is a link to a long list:

https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=011403...uns&gsc.page=1

[skipmac]

Thank you steadyhand for the list. OP and uncivilized, try reading just a few of the many, many previous threads.

To save you some time.

Guns on board will get you arrested in many countries. Many of those that don't arrest you will confiscate the guns when you arrive. You might get them back. You might be able to keep a gun on board at sea but will have to buy new ones pretty often if you stop many places.

Want to know how useful a gun will be on a boat? Go out in even moderate conditions like 4-5' seas, toss a bottle in the water, let it float off about 100 yards and try hitting it with a rifle or even a shotgun. I've been shooting and hunting since I was six, was a pretty good wing shot used to match shoot 22s. I tried shooting bottles off my sailboat with a rifle and never came close. Could not even come close 100' away, much less 100 yards. I doubt I could hit a small boat at 100 yards.

[Neptune's Gear]

My last post on the subject. Guns against piracy is stupidity. They have more and likely better that yours.

However, consider this. There are a LOT of cruisers out there now, today. There are VERY few piracy incidents, even in the "hot" areas.

If you live in a city, you are more likely to have burglaries/home invasions at home.

Internationally, guns are not allowed in many (most) countries, and will be taken from you when clearing in to a country. You are more likely (but still not at all likely to ) have a security issue when anchored, or at least in territorial waters, when any firearms are in the custody of the authorities.

So, leave them at home, and take basic security precautions to make yourself a harder target than most when out there.

This is my experience in a lifetime of sailing, incl approx 40K miles all over the world.

Have a safe voyage

[Lake-Effect]

It's been already pointed out the many pragmatic reasons for why a gun aboard isn't so great an idea: it's not likely to change the outcome of an armed confrontation, its use in other situations (ie to ward off a robbery attempt) may have consequences far beyond the potential robbery itself, a customs or LEO hassle because personal guns are not welcome in most of the world.

So... with the above in mind, does the OP still think there's a case for having a gun aboard?

My own feelings re sailing Somalia etc are
1) Personally, I'll consider those areas AFTER I've sailed all the nicer and safer spots in the world
2) There are some other options for transiting those parts of the world if they're an unavoidable part of your voyage.

[Tetepare]

Have you guys even read the OP? He wants to circumnavigate Africa.

Lessee...gun confiscation...in Africa. Depends on where, of course, but more depends on how much the shakedown costs. Who is going to land in Somalia while cruising? And if one does, do you really think they can't be bought off to keep a gun? Or might just confiscate the boat simply because they (government employees) can sell it or ransom it.

Globally there are no-no places for (most types of) guns. You can bring a gun on a boat into USA, but (as typical with USA) you just have to fill out six million forms and pay a few thousand dollars. AUS I assume will give you a really hard time.

Banana republics just want a payoff. That's a good percentage of Africa. Some places in the world it's just easier to buy the gun there. Solomon Islands and PNG for example.

But Africa? What's the best marina in Somalia? Do they carry ammo? Who cares?!!! One shouldn't go there to begin with! Buy guns in Libya- just slip the "port director" a $500 bill and tell him you want a couple FNs or AKs. Best in Nigeria to know somebody ahead of time to "clear" things and re-up on ammo. Same with Turkey- grease palms ahead of time.

Seriously? I mean yes, the above is serious and correct if somebody is dumb enough to do it. But really, who would be stupid enough to do it? I'm so tired of reading about well-intentioned idiots who want to hike Afghanistan, or Nigeria, or wherever and get captured. Then the family whinges that the government should spring them free. For truck's sake, stay out of some places.

OK. You want to go yachting to Somalia? Fine. You need a minimum of three FN MAGs at $8k each, plus four mounts at $1.5k each and $2500 worth of ammo. Each of the mounts has to be through-bolted somewhere, and anywhere is going to interfere with the sheets. To really beat their automatics and RPGs you'll want an M2HB for $12k, plus the $1.5k mount, and $1k of ammo- this REALLY has to be well supported. And figure in about $10k for night vision gear. You may well find three "operators" who will do the cruise with you, they'll be either Call of Duty armchair warriors or nutcases...or you can pay $1500/day for three mercenaries. You'll have to keep the guns below, so there goes one bunk. You'll have to feed three or four big boys, so there's a half ton of food.

I suppose if somebody wants to do this in a fine Italian motor yacht it's doable, and the cost is negligible. Good luck finding good fuel in Somalia or Somaliland, or Libya, or lots of Africa. But if one wants to do it in a cruising sailboat it's not feasible.

Then there are the Euro countries. A "joke" was floated some years ago about a cruise to hunt pirates. I don't think it's financially viable, but in any event the Euro navies will board your butt and take your weapons. Now you have nothing.

A crew of two or three adventurous youths with a couple AKs won't be worth a damned. Go kick a wasp nest first.

A gun on board is one thing. It can be hidden reasonably well. But it's useless in most of Africa. This isn't Guatemala. That the OP even asks tells me he/she has no idea what they're asking. This isn't about guns on board, it's about being stupid.

[Pelagic]

The bottom line on all these Gun threads is that it is a grown up, private and exremely personal decision, whose legality should be very well researched privately.

However, your own conclusions, should never be discussed or shared with anyone casually or debated on any Forum.

If you have to ask Why...?
...then you are not ready to handle and manage what could be a life or death decision.

[Celestialsailor]

Why do we continue to entertain trolls on this forum? I doubt the OP has a boat, will ever get a boat, let alone take this cruise.

[Kenomac]

I believe th OP is looking for yes or no answers regarding guns as it relates to the regions around Africa he plans to cruise. I don't remember this topic specifically being discussed over the past couple of years, it would be nice if anyone doing the same will respond rather the making this into a guns good, or guns bad debate.

Does having guns onboard pose an issue with laws and governments in the region? I'd like to know as well.

The OP is NOT cruising into Solmalia, he wants to know about " other ports" around Africa. A very legitimate question for this forum.

[GRIT]

I am also interested in reading any knowledgeable responses to this question.

A simple yes or no by country would be very useful.

Thanks.
Paul.

[PortClydeMe]

No offense, yet I'm very surprised that this thread has now reached two pages in length. In the past, anything on this forum about "firearms on board" gets shut down quickly. I'm not sure why. Maybe the topic of firearms makes someone here upset. Personally, and especially for 'global' sailors, I think that this is a very cogent and important topic.

That aside, please have a very nice day. Especially in the horn of Africa (Somalia) and the Philippines. (smile and wink)

[bvander]

Originally Posted by StuM

Very few places to mount one on a boat where the BBDA wouldn't be a problem.

But the 50 cal spotter could be useful just by itself

You shooting from a moving platform, probabikity of a hit is under 1%
Be like trying to engage a moving target off the jeep while driving cross country.

[bvander]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I believe th OP is looking for yes or no answers regarding guns as it relates to the regions around Africa he plans to cruise. I don't remember this topic specifically being discussed over the past couple of years, it would be nice if anyone doing the same will respond rather the making this into a guns good, or guns bad debate.

Does having guns onboard pose an issue with laws and governments in the region? I'd like to know as well.

The OP is NOT cruising into Solmalia, he wants to know about " other ports" around Africa. A very legitimate question for this forum.

Not a lot of data on that area, check noonsite, jimmy Cornell's "world cruising guide" and then a lot of researxh of each countries customs websites and phone calls to consulats.

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by bvander

You shooting from a moving platform, probabikity of a hit is under 1%
Be like trying to engage a moving target off the jeep while driving cross country.

I have no idea where you spent your formative years, yet some people, myself included, are VERY good with hitting targets using firearms ... regardless if that is from a rolling boat, a bouncy Jeep, or from a soggy moss deep in the woods. When I aim, I usually score. "One percent"? Hahaha, really? You think so?

By the way, what does "driving cross country" mean? Your words are very informative about your childhood and your experience. Take care.

[masonc]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Personally I would not leave the USA without at least two.. something like an AK47 with end to end taped clips prepped and stored in a handy place plus a sawn off pump action shotgun and 50 boxes of LG for close and dirty.
:

Please stay home. The US had flooded the region with firearms, we don't need anymore.