Ground Tackle Options and Handling - Cape Dory 27

[Atcowboy]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I have no bow roller but I do have a bow platform which originally had a roller.

The photos are a couple years old.

Here lately I have just been leaving the anchor tied off on the foredeck rather than mounting it back out on the bow. I tie it off to the cleat at first then later to that little storage board I (and the PO) have tie along the port side forward.

My CQR is a 20 lber

Is that a folbot? I have '73 2 person.

Do you just haul your chain over the bow platform? Or do you deadlift it, so it doesn't touch the hull?

- AT

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Atcowboy

Is that a folbot? I have '73 2 person.

Do you just haul your chain over the bow platform? Or do you deadlift it, so it doesn't touch the hull?

- AT

I deadlift it. It's easier than allowing it to drag over the platform edge. Sometimes it drags on the deck edges, sometimes not.

In a blow, it (the rode) will rub spots into the deck/hull at the top edge which I fill in when I pull the boat to do a bottom job ever 4 years.

I don't treat my boat like it will never get a scratch. The chain will drag on the deck/hull edges at times but it's only the last 35'-40' where the chain is. Then it's on the deck until I get around to pulling it back in the storage locker. Sometyimes it's muddy along with the anchor. That black (marsh type) mud even after I try getting it off by redunking it into the water a few times

[Kelkara]

Another 27ft boat weighing in here ... After three years of anchoring my boat without a windlass, I recently installed a Lofrans Royal manual windlass. Unfortunately, the current situation has prevented me from actually using it to report how I like it.

For (around here) shallow anchorages 5-10m pulling in the anchor by hand is fine and often some welcome exercise, normal anchorages 10-20m I might start to be thinking about installing a windlass by the time the last of the chain is on board, but deep anchorages 20-30m the weight of the chain is such that it can be a struggle right from the start.

However there are many anchorages where there is better holding in deeper places and at the moment I try to avoid such deep places if a shallower option is available, and I'm hoping that having installed the windlass I won't mistakenly opt for worse holding in shallower water when good holding in deep water is available.

Then there is the issue of wind which makes it harder. The engine only helps so much since in a blow the boat will fall off the wind and keep some tension on the rode. I've never yet had to resort to using the sheet winches for assistance, but it did take me over 2 hours to retrieve the anchor once.

Finally, even if I'm happy hauling in the weight of my chain and anchor, I have also occasionally had to haul up something that I've snagged as well ... a 20ft waterlogged log was a backbreaker to get high enough for me to extract the anchor from ... An old mooring chain from an abandoned logging camp was also quite a workout.

I will also echo what others have said about upgrading an old-style anchor to something modern ... switching from a CQR to an Excel was one of the best things I did for my boat, the difference is very noticeable ... but I kept to the recommended size, the larger size would have required modifying the boat. The CQR is still onboard as a spare ... one day even with the windlass the anchor may not come up at all and will have to be abandoned.

Obviously what *you* need depends on where and how *you* will be anchoring.

[boatnerd]

A beefy anchor roller and well supported bow cleats are where i would start. Most folks would say keep it simple on a small boat but over the years I've come to appreciate the advantages of mod cons especially when they increase safety. If your gonna be living on the hook and moving around consider getting a good quality 900-1000w windlass w/ manual option and 150-180ft of grade 40 chain. 1/4"(6mm) is light and perfectly fine. Go big and modern for your primary anchor 15-20kg. Always use high quality forged shackles (1.5-2t rating). A good Anchor Stopper is another inexpensive item I would recommend. Spend the extra money and time on your ground tackle system. It will make reanchoring or leaving in a hurry much less stressful and safer.

[Cheechako]

Use your boat some and make decisions based on that.
A manual windlass and 150-200 ft of chain with some nylon spliced on after that are what I recommend. Don't over size the chain, it's heavy.
Oversize the anchor a bit.
Make sure the anchor you select will fit and work with your roller, some fit , some dont.

Yes, while electric windlasses say they can be manually retrieved, you dont want to do it, you'll end up just using your hands.
It's very feasible on that boat to go without a windlass, use a length of chain and hand it in with Nylon rode and gloves.
Try cruising locally a bit and see what works for you. Then you will know if you want to hand in 100 feet of line and anchor or not. A windlass and chain in a blow can be a big help, but singlehanding, it's going to be difficult. Windlasses aren't built to take a lot of jerking with a bar tight chain. Manhandling nylon though can be a finger remover... haul in, tie off, jerk tight, repeat... if singlehanding and rope rode, I would want a huge cleat or bollard to help solve that; suck in the slack, hold with wraps around, repeat.

[Paul Howard]

A windlass, manual or powered is not necessary for you and your sized boat unless you have back problems or are not very strong or are over 50years old.
Install something like the Lewmar anchor lock so, when the water is very deep or otherwise the chain and anchor is difficult to pull in, you can sit on your bum on the foredeck with your feet braced on the bow pulpit and pull. Do not try to pull hard bent over while standing or you will ruin your back.
Also, remember that a line running from a sheet winch (or from a halyard winch if you have them on the mast) and a rolling hitch on the chain or rope rode, you can winch up the rode ten or fifteen feet at a time. Tie a line with a rolling hitch to the rode, take other end to a winch and crank in as far as possible, take another line tied off at a bow cleat and use a rolling hitch to hold the rode as far as you have winched it, then move the line from the winch as far down the chain as you can and winch in again. It might take a while, but I have used this technique many times when necessary.

[thomm225]

Also, I am 64 and don't use a windlass.

And as has been mentioned, use your boat for a while and see how things go. An old CQR can be had for $50 or less.

Try out everything on you boat in different conditions and see how things go.

Since I only paid $2,000 for my boat I put in in to some very bad anchorages at first and hoped for the best.

I know the bottom here though since I grew up near here and had 6-8 power boats between ages 16-24. I always just used the anchor that came with the boats.

Another thing, why would you want all chain on a relatively light weight 27' boat?

What does 200'-250' of chain weight as it will all be in the bow which is why I like 40' or so of chain and the rest rope rode. Same on the stern, I have a 58lb 5 hp 4 stroke outboard back there that replaced the 352 lb Bukh 10 diesel

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Another thing, why would you want all chain? What does 200'-250' or chain weight as it will all be in the bow which is why I like 40' or so of chain and the rest rope rode.

That's the reason for the location question. In some places, all chain or at least a long length of it is necessary for chafe resistance. In other places, a decent length of chain and a bunch of nylon works just fine.

[kmacdonald]

Go with a new generation anchor and keep the weight down. Put the weight in the anchor, not the chain. Don't oversize, the manufacturers have already done that for you.

[johnn33]

You might look at pawl chain anchor stoppers; and a sacrificial rubber matting. A photo of your fore deck would be of interest.
John

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Atcowboy

2) Use an all chain rode, where every single link is tested.

I used to have all chain, though I was convinced after reading The Complete Anchoring Guide to change to chain and rode - generally he suggests enough chain to use a 3:1 scope if you are dropping the hook for a short time in your usual cruising areas depth. I use 30m 8mm chain, and 80meter 30mm rode (a little more would be nice, but price was an issue), a 22kg fortress anchor as my main (16kg is recommended size for me).
The weight saving benefits of chain and rode would be amplified on your relatively small ship.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by johnn33

You might look at pawl chain anchor stoppers; and a sacrificial rubber matting. A photo of your fore deck would be of interest.
John

Here's a photo of a Cape Dory 27 with would looks to be a CQR anchor on the foredeck.

As far as sacrificial matting, the boat is heavily built. Why worry over a few scratches on a 40 years old boat?

This one has the cleat center forward like mine does

[roverhi]

If you use rope rode, the sheet winches can be used as a windlass to add oomph when hauling in rode. Used the sheet winches on my 35' boat to kedge off when I ran aground in the ICW. Worked great and even better with a self tailing winch if you don't have a tailer.

Would add a bow roller. The 012163 bow roller here would probably work out well If the bow will accept it. https://www.defender.com/search.html?q=Anc040A&pPgNo=2
Be sure and mount it far enough forward so the anchor that you choose doesn't eat up the gel coat on the bow.

I would stick with the Danforths till you get some experience using an anchor. Many many have used Danforths successfully since WWII when they were invented to anchor sea planes and what I've inherited and using on my 28' boat. Have had one so stuck in Chesapeake Mud that could only retrieve it by digging down to it and pulling out backwards. 10 kilo/20-25# new pattern inverted plow anchors would be as heavy an anchor I'd use. They are pricey but do seem to be better anchors over a wider range of bottom conditions. Having said that, anchored 24/7/365 for two years with a good old CQR and never had a problem including a tropical low with 50mph winds. You can find Danforth types, CQR, Claw, and Delta anchors dirt cheap on Craigs List if you want a cheap replacement for the Danforths.

All chain is nice especially in coral but chain is heavy and almost forces you to get a windlass. You can hand retrieve chain but your hands will suffer. The weight is also a big consideration on a boat your size. 200' of 1/4" chain is going to change the trim of your boat. From experience, even a heavy displacement boat's trim and sailing characteristics will be effected by all chain rode stowed in the bow. For your 27' boat would stick with 20'-30' 1/4" chain and 1/2" rope road. Seems that what the smaller boats were using when we were out.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Atcowboy

Thank you for the reading suggestion; there are so many books out there on the subject it is hard to find which ones to spend your shekels on. I just picked up a copy on thrift book.

That said, Thomm was quoting Atom voyages (which certainly is not 45 years old) and so was I. In fact, Atom's Good Old Boat List is where I found the CD 27 (Also the Bristol 27 that Thomm owns, and I asked him about when I went to go look at one).

I love watching the YouTubes of people "out there" and "doing it". Endlessly fixing electrical gremlins and such. (I'm being serious, if I'm not working my way to the Caribbean by finishing my dinghy or now my boat, I'm watching other people sail). Of the more capable ones I like to watch, I've noticed is that a lot of them still refer to the Pardeys, including [I]Storm Tactics[I]. As far as the Pardey's relevance, the ocean is still 1.0. Am I planning on oil running lights? No. Do I think that some of what they write about is still relevant? Absolutely.

Thanks,
AT

I get you. Simple is nice and a hammer always works. We wish engines were that simple.

That said, electrical gremlins are really rare if you take the time to learn and do solid electrical work. Tinned wire, sealed crimps, and barrier strips. I've had to fix old stuff, but I don't think I've ever had to fix my own work over, not in 35 years. I learned from a perfectionist.


You got a bunch of anchoring advice, so I'll leave that alone. I will second the advice to sail one full season before digging into anything more than maintenance and minor refitting. I've had 4 boats, and I swear, it always takes 1-2 years to learn what that boat needs to suit how YOU want to use it. You would think it would take that long, and you think you know... but you don't and it takes time. Spend that year sailing and brainstorming. THEN you can do a cool refit.

[Quadrille in JB]

It looks like you have plenty of room up there to add a roller with an extension.
This makes life a whole lot easier instead of hauling it directly in. Both on your back and on the boat. We installed a Lofran’s royal manual windlass because there was no room for Electric and I didn’t want to mess with all the wiring and relays. This is one of the best things we’ve ever done for the boat and for my back. It’s slightly slower than Electric but trouble free. And I also recommend a nice chain snubber, we use a mantis.