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Old 29-05-2020, 16:10   #31
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Re: Ground Tackle Options and Handling - Cape Dory 27

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Originally Posted by Quadrille in JB View Post
It looks like you have plenty of room up there to add a roller with an extension.
This makes life a whole lot easier instead of hauling it directly in. Both on your back and on the boat. We installed a Lofran’s royal manual windlass because there was no room for Electric and I didn’t want to mess with all the wiring and relays. This is one of the best things we’ve ever done for the boat and for my back. It’s slightly slower than Electric but trouble free. And I also recommend a nice chain snubber, we use a mantis.
Yea, fortunately for me I have a raised combing and hatch to the forepeak that makes a nice seat, and with my feet braced against the pulpit, I then have a comfortable position to haul and brace even in less than ideal conditions. I rarely use the manual winch. I need to sort out a bigger chain hawser now that I have switch to chain and rode though.
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Old 29-05-2020, 16:28   #32
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Re: Ground Tackle Options and Handling - Cape Dory 27

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Originally Posted by Quadrille in JB View Post
It looks like you have plenty of room up there to add a roller with an extension.
This makes life a whole lot easier instead of hauling it directly in. Both on your back and on the boat. We installed a Lofran’s royal manual windlass because there was no room for Electric and I didn’t want to mess with all the wiring and relays. This is one of the best things we’ve ever done for the boat and for my back. It’s slightly slower than Electric but trouble free. And I also recommend a nice chain snubber, we use a mantis.
Life is too easy as it is sitting around on a sailboat.

The least one can do is pull up the anchor by hand especially a light weight 20-25 lb anchor that would be used on a small boat.

I always worry about the lack of movement being on a boat too long.

I have noticed that many liveaboards actually gain weight after a few months
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Old 29-05-2020, 16:38   #33
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Re: Ground Tackle Options and Handling - Cape Dory 27

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The anchor does not care what type of boat it is attached too. The anchor only cares about the seabed it's buried in. The type of boat has no bearing on the type of anchor.

IMHO (.......and this topic is akin to trolling as there have been thousands of "Which anchor" threads on every boating website since forums were invented) the 'new age' anchors perform very well.

Spade
Rocna
Manson
Mantus

If don't have a bow pulpit, or the bow roller goes over the bow pulpit, any of the roll-bar types work well. If you have a through pulpit mounted anchor, then the non-roll bar models (Rocna Vulcan, Spade) work very well.

I've used a traditional Rocna, Manson Supreme and a Rocna Vulcan. Each for several years and had very good success with all of them.
Yes, yes, yes! Great advice. The "modern" anchors are superior, in my opinion, and I don't have a strong preference, although if pushed I might select the Manson Supreme (or the Vulcan, or the Mantus...)

Something in the 33# range should appropriate, although if you're forced to anchor in a crappy bottom, at some point there's no anchor big enough.

I'd use a reasonable length of chain (100'?) so that you're anchoring using chain-only 80% of the time, and 1/2" three strand or 12-strand nylon. Direct splice to chain.

Keep it reasonably light, simple, and safe.

Chuck
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Old 29-05-2020, 16:46   #34
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Re: Ground Tackle Options and Handling - Cape Dory 27

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Originally Posted by Chuck Hawley View Post
Yes, yes, yes! Great advice. The "modern" anchors are superior, in my opinion, and I don't have a strong preference, although if pushed I might select the Manson Supreme (or the Vulcan, or the Mantus...)

Something in the 33# range should appropriate, although if you're forced to anchor in a crappy bottom, at some point there's no anchor big enough.

I'd use a reasonable length of chain (100'?) so that you're anchoring using chain-only 80% of the time, and 1/2" three strand or 12-strand nylon. Direct splice to chain.

Keep it reasonably light, simple, and safe.

Chuck
So what are we talking here price wise? $200-$300 or more?

Why not get a $50 CQR and see how it does for a few months. Mine has worked for 9 years

Many times that $50 CQR on Craiglist includes 35'- 40' of chain and a couple hundred feet of rope rode also. This from folks that thought they needed a new gen anchor
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Old 29-05-2020, 17:07   #35
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Re: Ground Tackle Options and Handling - Cape Dory 27

Get yourself a new gen anchor and the correct chain/rode for your sailing needs, any of the new generation anchors are a better bet than the previous era anchors. Jmo,

Fair winds,
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Old 29-05-2020, 17:24   #36
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Re: Ground Tackle Options and Handling - Cape Dory 27

get a "new gen" anchor. i had a mantus supreme and it so much better than anything i ever had in 30 plus years of anchorinig that i will never look back. 35 lbs would probably be as big as you need to go. get all chain. fit a bow roller anywhere near the bow that you can get it. no windlass needed.

if you're thinking florida/bahamas we had 140 feet of chain and never used more than 100 feet. this with a 45lb mantus and i never used the manual windlass we had. too much trouble.

the simple truth is that 95% of your cruising life will be at anchor. so spend your money on anchoring gear and you will sleep better....
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Old 29-05-2020, 17:38   #37
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Re: Ground Tackle Options and Handling - Cape Dory 27

A couple of thoughts. I had a CD26 for years and took her offshore from Virginia to Bermuda and back.

If you are not simplicity minded, a small boat does not make a lot of sense.
Keep it simple.

Stick with the Armstrong unit you have for now.
Your boat is fine ended and sensitive to weight at the bow. Less is better.

As you venture farther afield. you will find yourself adding bulky/heavy gear, some of which is nearly same size for a 27 as for a 40 footer- dinghy and liferaft were the ball busters for me.

Chesapeake is nearly all mud bottom. Great holding. Concrete in a coffee can would almost be OK. Elsewhere, the benefits of a newer anchor design may become more apparent.


If you go for a traditional bronze manual windlass, the single speed pumpkin style is reliable. The appealing two speed type that is on Taleisin has a spring mechanism that is failure prone and challenging to fix. I had one that I never was able to get quite right, and I discussed it with Taleisin's new owner, who reported similar challenges.
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Old 29-05-2020, 21:54   #38
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Re: Ground Tackle Options and Handling - Cape Dory 27

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Originally Posted by Atcowboy View Post
I have just recently purchased a CD27 and I am wondering what other sailing CD owners have been doing for ground tackle.

I am hoping to sail this boat far away to warm waters and live on her, on the hook. Reading about this at length and watching countless hours of video, it seems all the people who actually do this agree on two things.

1) Use a heavy anchor. Probably heavier than the manufacturer suggests for your boat. Definitely heavy enough that a day sailer says, "why such a heavy anchor? I use a 1/4oz fishing weight works just fine."
2) Use an all chain rode, where every single link is tested.

I am wondering if there is anyone who has done this with their CD27, or other sailing cape dory that has a similar bow? When I look at the bow fairleads they look like they could really wear hard on a rope rode in bad weather, or on a sea anchor rode. They definitely look like a chain belongs no where in there. The foredeck is also rather small, so not much room for a windlass or a capstan.


I've also been considering a manual windlass, such as follows. I just get the feeling that the motor-powered units that I see that also have manual operation are probably a *bear* (no mechanical advantage) to use.... https://www.lofrans.com/product/4-Lofra ... 5015-royal

Thanks for your thoughts,
AT
My boat is a CS27 - similar size to yours but a bit lighter. Heading down the west coast in 2021 - would have been this year except covid got in the way.

The CS 27 has a bow and bow rail that do not work well with any commercially available bow roller so I had one custom made in stainless. Changed the single bow cleat to one on each side near the toerail. I am installing a Lewmar Pro1000 - horizontal so it is entirely on deck and smaller that a Lofrans Royal manual. I will be using all chain - 200' of 1/4" G40. 1/4" chain weighs 3/4 of a pound per foot so that is 150 lbs of chain. The windlass is farther aft than the chain locker and the chain drops under the V-berth. The original chain locker at the bow is being used by a secondary chain/rope rode.

Here's my reasoning for electric. Lets say you come into an anchorage and the anchor doesn't set well. So you re-anchor. Still doesn't set well so try again. At a certain point you will be tempted to call it good enough if you have to pull it up by hand or use a slower manual windlass. With electric it is a lot less effort and you will re-anchor until it is well set for a good sleep. The other advantage of electric is that you can toggle the windlass from the helm with a rocker switch as you move the boat forward slowly. Or drop it from the helm if the roller is self launching as mine is.

As marine electrician I agree with Thinwater that good wiring should never have an issue - the only issues I have seen in many years were with badly done wiring. Do it right once and you won't have any problems.

As far as anchors my main anchor is a 33lb Rocna - overkill even to Peter Smith (he designed it) as I have had a few chats with him recently. He is in Victoria currently with Kiwi Roa.

I also have a 33lb Bruce and a 25lb original CQR. And I was recently given a 25lb Danforth which will make a good stern anchor - I also have a small stern roller.

This assumes you will be heading south and living on anchor. Reassurance comes with a solid anchoring system that is easy to use.

ps. I am over 50, actually quite a bit over.
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Old 30-05-2020, 00:58   #39
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Re: Ground Tackle Options and Handling - Cape Dory 27

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I have noticed that many liveaboards actually gain weight after a few months
I did, but it wasn't fat

Jokes aside, I fully recommend a good 15-20 minute morning stretching routine to avoid injuries. And on the subject of fitness - imo, using the outboard for trips less than 200m is the fitness equivalent of using your car to take the trash down the driveway

Hauling even a large anchor isn't that hard, you haul when you can, brace when you can't. No need for brute force. Even breaking it free from packed sand just requires you to brace and let the motion of the boat break it free from above.
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Old 30-05-2020, 01:03   #40
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Re: Ground Tackle Options and Handling - Cape Dory 27

As someone who has a 33kg anchor on the bow of a 40ft yacht I am of the "go big or go home" school of thought when it comes to ground tackle. After all this is the only thing stopping your boat/home ending up on the rocks while you sleep.

However I wouldn't want to try and drag that up without the 1kw windlass everytime i had to weigh anchor so i can also understand why people want to keep the weight down.

So can I suggest you consider an Aluminium anchor? Fortress and Spade do great anchors in the lightweight metal. You gain holding power without risking a hernia. I'd also suggest uprating your chain. I run G70 8mm which has the same strength as G40 10mm so again saves weight while keeping strength. With the smaller size of your boat you might be able to drop to 6mm with G70 meaning either less weight to drag up or allowing more chain to be carried before swapping to rope rode.
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Old 30-05-2020, 02:17   #41
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Re: Ground Tackle Options and Handling - Cape Dory 27

On my previous boat (Pearson 36-2) I had a mason supreme and 50 feet of chain.... rest 5/8 rode worked fine and held boat no problem and I pulled up by hand. Remember when you have all chain you will be using a rode snubber that you will attach to the chain and tie onto your boat.....
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Old 30-05-2020, 02:57   #42
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Re: Ground Tackle Options and Handling - Cape Dory 27

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Is that a folbot? I have '73 2 person.

Do you just haul your chain over the bow platform? Or do you deadlift it, so it doesn't touch the hull?

- AT
Yes, the kayak is a 16'6" Cooper Folbot. It fits in a backpack as you probably know when it's disassembled.
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Old 30-05-2020, 03:03   #43
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Re: Ground Tackle Options and Handling - Cape Dory 27

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Yes, the kayak is a 16'6" Cooper Folbot. It fits in a backpack as you probably know when it's disassembled.
Yea, I got a 2 person Savylor inflatable kayak after the dinghy was beyond repair. No problem carrying shopping and having my daughter sit between my legs.
Although eventually the plan is to build a nesting 2 part sailable tender, where the two sections bolt together for use, but nest inside each other on deck.
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Old 30-05-2020, 03:53   #44
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Re: Ground Tackle Options and Handling - Cape Dory 27

A few thoughts to the OP: you have been overwhelmingly advised to get a new-gen anchor. I had a 15# aluminum Spade on the 27' Irwin I took around the Caribbean. It was too small, but it held in some stiff blows. It's my favorite of the New-Gen styles. My current 45# Manson doesn't fit in the roller because of the bar, so I haul it to the waterline, reach over and grab the bar, and plunk it on deck. It lashes to a stanchion and never makes trouble.
The difference between your boat and the Pardey's is that they had lots of real estate on the foredeck--your CD does not, and cannot carry the same amount of weight forward. They also did not have new-gen anchors, and so had to carry heavier tackle. If you must windlass, I recommend the Lofrans manual that's been discussed. I have one now and it's given ten years of trouble-free service. I rarely use it for the full hoist (slow), just whenever the chain starts feeling heavy. There have been times when I bring the hook up from 70 feet with the windlass alone, but I try not to anchor that deep.
I'd put in a bow roller for sure, get a 25-30# Spade/Rocna/Manson, 60' of chain spliced to 200 of 8-plait 5/8", and see in a year whether you really want a windlass.
I would never pay money for a CQR, nor would I keep a steel Danforth longer than it took to find a trash can. An aluminum Fortress or Guardian is the best money you'll spend for a kedge.
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Old 30-05-2020, 04:12   #45
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Re: Ground Tackle Options and Handling - Cape Dory 27

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There have been times when I bring the hook up from 70 feet with the windlass alone, but I try not to anchor that deep.
For me, I usually don't need the windlass in less than 30'. The weight of the chain and anchor in water are minus the volume of seawater they displace, so not ridiculous if you take it slow n steady over a good bowroller.
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