First boat for long cruises with small family

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by calmowner

I'm working for US dollars so there is no difference. I thought to hold US flag on the boat if it's possible. As I heard from other russian guys who bought a boat in US - Delawere is not expensive for registration. I'm russian and originally from Russia, our law a bit complicated for small boats and our customs is very greedy, they want about 30% of boat price. If I want to keep boat under russian flag I have to pay taxes for customs, pass state exam for skipper license (not international school like RYA or IYT, these certificates doesn't work as a license in Russia) and get permit certificate for boat from state department of small vessels. I don't want mess with it, really. Better travel outside of home country.

You cannot get a a Federal, i.e. US Coast Guard documentation, if you are not a US citizen. But you should be able to register it in any state. If you register a 30+ year old boat in Florida you only pay like $7 a year. Best deal in US I think. Some states don't have a sales tax for boats (or for anything) but their registration fees may be $100+ a year. So with a boat for under $20K you have to figure out where you save more - in a tax free but more expensive to register state like New Hampshire or Rhode Island or in Florida where you will initially have to pay a 6% tax but then only $7/year for registration.

[Island Time O25]

And to add to Cheechako extensive list - don't fall for teak decks. While they look very nautical you will get more headaches from them then you need. Unless of course you have access to some cheap labor back home but as I understand you are not planning to take the boat back to Russia or are you? Because if you are it may have to be quite different boat than the one to keep back here.

[roverhi]

A quarter berth makes a great 'stateroom' for a child. Big enough for them to have a separate area for their toys and a plyroom for occasional friends. A couple we were cruising with had built a Kendal, predecessor of the Westsail 32, with a quarter berth where there boy had grown up. Boy was about 10 when we met them in Moorea and had lived most of his life on board. Believe they moved to a larger boat as hd got older later but still with a quarter berth for their son.

As far as babies on boats, it would be a challenge but way easier than the transition years, between 1-3, when they are mobile but not cognizant of the dangers. Definitely would keep the child on a leash/tether and teach them to drown proof ASAP. Many kids have been raised on boats without problems but you have to be top of them of the devious little buggers.

FWIW know of one kid who went from a spoiled malicious brat when land based to a charming, intelligent child after they moved aboard. Despite the close confines of living on a boat, he had his own dinghy and was able to escape his helicopter mother much to his benefit.

[calmowner]

Cheechako, thank you very much for useful advices. Before come to US I will create checklist with things I can check, I have got few examples for it on russian boat forum. These guys adviced me to purchase moisturmeter and rubbermallet for check hull.

[calmowner]

Island Time O25, I don't want sail to Russia since I don't want to pass state exam specially for it. I'm ok without Black Sea coast if I have the rest of world. And about teak... I heard, but it looks very attractive for me. What kind of headache might be in case of teak deck? I have read about leaks but I don't understand how does it work.
What did you mean in Coast Guard documentation? For what purposes I need it?

[barnakiel]

Congratulation with the baby!

Now, to the boats.

The Tartan and the Westsail look fine. A HR Monsun is also quite spacious.

I think the Dory and the Mistress are smallish boats.

A HR Monsun is low maintenance and well built. Westsails vary from great to garage quality. Tartan 37 is a very nice boat too, it is bigger than the HR. They too seem to vary in present condition quite considerably.

I could lean towards a Tartan 37 from your list if I were to live onboard and sail with my partner and a new kid. If I could get a clean one with no teak where I am. But they all seem to be in the US.

Buy in a place where you can outfit and have direct access to where you want to live/sail. Avoid buying in places very remote from your target 'home' base.

Cheers,
barnakiel
Canary Islands

[calmowner]

Originally Posted by hamburking

I sailed with young kids, and it poses a challenge. But sailing with a baby is a whole nother thing entirely. With all due respect, I suggest you stay ashore until the baby can walk and talk. The long cold winters won't seem so bad with a baby in the
Best wishes to your family!

First of all thank you. Why do you think it's not a good idea? I have read stories about families, who spend whole pregnancy onboard and delivered onboard also. I think it's extremally irresponsible, but what's wrong with cruise with small baby? He will be at least six months old when we will start. We wait him in February and I hope to get a boat in summer. I think he will be in more danger here, in cold fall and winter than in tropical climat.

[calmowner]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Buy in a place where you can outfit and have direct access to where you want to live/sail. Avoid buying in places very remote from your target 'home' base.

Thank you for congratulations! What do you mean in "home base"? We would like boat to be our home for at least one year. Due my job I change cities like socks and I cannot say where is my home. And since I have enough money I enjoy to visit new countries more than have a base somewhere. That's the reason I still have no own home.

[Peter1949]

Calmowner
You might try to look at boats for sale at
Sailboat listings.com which you can index boats by make and by US states
They are listed by owner so there would be no broker involved
Also yachtworld.com which are boats with brokers involved
Good luck with your search
Pete

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by calmowner

Island Time O25, I don't want sail to Russia since I don't want to pass state exam specially for it. I'm ok without Black Sea coast if I have the rest of world. And about teak... I heard, but it looks very attractive for me. What kind of headache might be in case of teak deck? I have read about leaks but I don't understand how does it work.
What did you mean in Coast Guard documentation? For what purposes I need it?

The Coast Guard documentation is a form of registering the boat with the US Federal government, bypassing state registration. But some states still require to state register. It would not apply to you in any case unless you become a US citizen at some point. So don't worry about it.

The teak, especially on older boats was usually attached by screws. Now imagine hundreds or thousands of screws on the fiberglass deck. If the deck is solid fiberglass all the way through (which it seldom is in the boats built after 1960s) it is not a big problem other than the fact that your deck has lots of unneeded holes in it. But if there is some core or sandwich between the fiberglass layers it means that over the years lot of water found it's way below and made a soup out of that sandwich. And that is a very labor intensive repair to make. And if the mast is deck stepped soft and wet core deck is something which may impact the mast stability. And you don't want to chance that sailing in the middle of the ocean.

Your $20K budget does not leave a lot of room for mistakes. The boat you will get must at least be free of major (read "expensive") issues which you cannot fix yourself or cannot fix without quitting your regular job. But you should still expect to have lots of issues which will take up lots of your free time and some money to fix. If you'd be living on the boat you will be saving some money which would otherwise go to rent, car costs, etc. That will be your boat budget plus whatever you can make remotely. And with a 30 year old boat you will need every extra dollar you come across unless you are very knowledgeable as a mechanic or very good with your hands in which case most of your expenses will be your time.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by Peter1949

Calmowner
You might try to look at boats for sale at
Sailboat listings.com which you can index boats by make and by US states
They are listed by owner so there would be no broker involved
Also yachtworld.com which are boats with brokers involved
Good luck with your search
Pete

Calmowner
Also if you have a particular boat model/maker in mind look for boat specific forums. Their members often give other forum members first crack to buy a boat they're selling and at friendly price at that.

Most old boats on Yachtworld are overpriced brokers' listings which can be found "by owner" on sailboatlistings.com at lower asking prices.

[calmowner]

Island Time O25, thanks for all explanations, you really make it clear for me
I'm not sure about mechanics. In my spare time I rebuild an engine in my BMW 750, it's V8 with lot of modern things like Valvetronic etc. It's ok for me. But I never tried diesel so I cannot just say "it's ok". I'm planning to do savings this year to add them into project, so $20k not a whole budget, it's just for get a boat. Actually I hope to buy something around $15k and spend money to prepare boat for travel.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by calmowner

Island Time O25, thanks for all explanations, you really make it clear for me
I'm not sure about mechanics. In my spare time I rebuild an engine in my BMW 750, it's V8 with lot of modern things like Valvetronic etc. It's ok for me. But I never tried diesel so I cannot just say "it's ok". I'm planning to do savings this year to add them into project, so $20k not a whole budget, it's just for get a boat. Actually I hope to buy something around $15k and spend money to prepare boat for travel.

If you could rebuild a V8 you should be fine working on a diesel. The older diesels are much simpler than a modern gas V8. It's the new parts which will be your biggest expense then.

[calmowner]

Well, back to boats.
There are adviced boats in this topic, made by Westerly, Rival, Morgan (Morgan Out Island??), Tartan, Sabre, Bristol, Island Packet. Are these boats capable for blue water? I have read about russian traveller Evgeny Gvozdev who crossed oceans on extremally small boat, but I'm planning to travel with family and baby, so boat should be more safe and capable for big water.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by calmowner

Well, back to boats.
There are adviced boats in this topic, made by Westerly, Rival, Morgan (Morgan Out Island??), Tartan, Sabre, Bristol, Island Packet. Are these boats capable for blue water? I have read about russian traveller Evgeny Gvozdev who crossed oceans on extremally small boat, but I'm planning to travel with family and baby, so boat should be more safe and capable for big water.

I can only speak with any authority on the Westerly's and the Rivals.. both are built to the highest standard with Lloyds surveyors inspecting every stage of the build.. the hulls are very thick below the water line and they have done oceans.. in my case I lived aboard my Longbow for 4 yrs sailing the Atlantic and Med.. rode out 70knot winds and big sea's.. storage is excellent and the port quarter berth would be great for the baby to be wedged into.. good fore cabin and the saloon table drops down to make a big double as well.. however get a good surveyor whatever you decide on.