First boat for long cruises with small family

[calmowner]

Hello everyone. I'm newbie in sailing and just have started first steps for bring yachts in my life. Had small experience with extra-small catamaran (just bananas and sails) in Finnish gulf of Baltic sea near St.Petersburg. At the moment me and my wife consider to change our lifestyle, stop working in office, get remote job (I'm IT guy) and buy sailing yacht for long cruises and liveaboard. Also we are awaiting for a baby, so we need a boat for three persons If I sell both my cars I will get about $20k so my budget very modest, but as I have read about other similar stories - that money could be enough since I'm ok with repair. My plan looks like go to Florida, find a boat and buy it, bring my family into boat, spend couple months onboard in marina for repair if needed and then go to Carribeans.
Yeah, I have read topic about boats priced under 30k, but I'm looking for some blue water vessel because after Carribeans I would like to have an opportunity move boat to Southeast Asia. According this I make my list of boats which could be a target:
Westsail 32 (almost not in budget)
Hallberg-Rassy Monsun 31 (almost not in budget)
Hallberg-Rassy Mistress 32
Tartan 37CB
Cape Dory 30
Could anyone help me to extend this list? Who can tell anything good/bad about listed boats? Expecially I'm not sure with HR Mistress 32 as a blue water.

PS. Sorry if my english makes you crying.
PPS. Really tired of cold snowy winters.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, calmowner.

[boatman61]

Given your location being listed on your Avatar as Belarus.. I fail to understand why your looking at American boats as opposed to closer to home.. there's some good deals to be had in the EU and especially the UK of boats built to Lloyds Standard such as Westerly's, Rivals etc..
Gain experience working your way down France, Spain and Portugal crossing to the Canaries by which time you'll be more thanready I would think to achieve your goals.
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[calmowner]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Given your location being listed on your Avatar as Belarus.. I fail to understand why your looking at American boats as opposed to closer to home.. there's some good deals to be had in the EU and especially the UK of boats built to Lloyds Standard such as Westerly's, Rivals etc..
Gain experience working your way down France, Spain and Portugal crossing to the Canaries by which time you'll be more thanready I would think to achieve your goals.

I would like to spend couple months in Florida (usual place for my vacations last two year) and travel around Carribean Sea, after that probably move to South America or Southeast Asia. That's why I'm looking American boats I don't want to cross the ocean without enough sailing experience or spend money to hire someone who can help with it, so I think better buy boat somethere near south Florida. Also usually it's a bit cheaper than in Europe, especially if we are talking about boats made in US (Cape Dory, Westsail etc).

[boatman61]

Fairy Snuff..
Best wishes in your search.. watch out for 'repaired' hurricane damaged boats.. there's a lot of those about in your area of choice..

[Island Time O25]

Calmowner, if you expand your search to include Northeastern states and not just So. Florida you will find a much better quality selection at about the same or even lower prices. New England states, especially. The reason being is that the sailing season here is very short, 4-5 months, so the boats of the same age as in Florida get 3 times less use (and the use is gentler with lower humidity) while the asking prices are about the same. Boats from Great Lakes are even better in that respect (fresh water use is a big plus factor) but that area may not work for you given your time constraints and the need to sail out quickly once you find your boat. Sailing out of Great Lakes to the Atlantic will add about 3-4 months to your timetable. Then again it may be the time and experience you will need while being in relatively calm and protected waters of the river ways and canal systems.

Price/quality wise on the average Florida boats would be more expensive and in worse shape, then New England then Great Lakes ones. I have no knowledge or experience as to the prices and conditions on the West Coast.

My own boat before I got it spent its first 20-22 years in seasonal use in Great Lakes, then 5-7 years in Florida and last 3 years on the hard in New England. My surveyor talked extensively about that after the survey and he basically said that it looked like 80-90% of whatever was wrong with the boat resulted from it Florida years and that without these years it would be in almost new condition.

[calmowner]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

Boats from Great Lakes are even better in that respect (fresh water use is a big plus factor) but that area may not work for you given your time constraints and the need to sail out quickly once you find your boat. Sailing out of Great Lakes to the Atlantic will add about 3-4 months to your timetable.

Due US visa restrictions I can spend in US no more than six months each visit. And generally it's not a good idea to do such thing since it might be a cause of problems when I will try go to US next time. So I think I have no more than 3-4 months for find, buy, make it ready to sail away, take some experience at least in coastal sailing and move to somewhere like Cuba.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by calmowner

Due US visa restrictions I can spend in US no more than six months each visit. And generally it's not a good idea to do such thing since it might be a cause of problems when I will try go to US next time. So I think I have no more than 3-4 months for find, buy, make it ready to sail away, take some experience at least in coastal sailing and move to somewhere like Cuba.

6 months is the standard maximum time you get for a visit. But you can apply to extend it if the goals of your visit have not yet been achieved. Since you'd be coming in to buy a boat and transport it back to Europe if you have not done so in the 6 months time frame you will have a very good reason to ask for extension if you really need one. You could also look on the Canadian side of Great Lakes as their dollar is much weaker and your Euros will go farther there than in US.

Also you will need to figure out what would be the best place for you to register the boat. Look up threads on this forum dealing with this question.

[hamburking]

I sailed with young kids, and it poses a challenge. But sailing with a baby is a whole nother thing entirely. With all due respect, I suggest you stay ashore until the baby can walk and talk. The long cold winters won't seem so bad with a baby in the house.

I sold my Hunter 35.5 when my son was born. I bought a C&C25 a few years later, and it was great for sailing Lake Ontario with my wife and kids on short (1 week) cruises, until my kids got too big to share the vee berth.

Best wishes to your family!

[hamburking]

OK...Here is the boat for you:

1972 Morgan 42 MK II Used | eBay

You could maybe get it for under $20,000. Its located on the great lakes, which would be a good place to start your trip. Its an easy trip to New York City via the erie canal and the hudson river, then down the east coast at your liesure to Florida, the Bahamas and the Caribbean.

Although its good to have some models in mind, if cost is an issue, you need to be able to evaluate whats available for sale, and go from there.

[Hoodsail]

Calmowner:
I've sailed on Tartan 34's, not the 37, but well built, good history and a late 1970's-early 1980's can be found in the low $20,000. T-34 has enough room for 2 adults and 1 baby. Might consider Sabre 33, late 1970-early 1980, comparable to Tartan 34 and the Sabre 33 c/b draws 4ft same as T-34. Lastly consider 1970's Bristol 35...heavier build than other 2 a bit more of a challenge to find for $20,000, but would fulfill your requirements now and across the pond. Would plan on working on/replacing variety of systems at this price point (eg sails, some standing/running rigging, re-bedding deck hardware, lifelines etc per survey).
good hunting
dave

[Cheechako]

I think you have a great list there. Some of them may be pushing your budget. I hope you find time to sail the Bahamas while you are here also. Island Packet 31 could be added, although not sure it's in your budget either.
Be very careful what you buy, your budget is low and the wrong purchase could double it.

[calmowner]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

You could also look on the Canadian side of Great Lakes as their dollar is much weaker and your Euros will go farther there than in US.

Also you will need to figure out what would be the best place for you to register the boat. Look up threads on this forum dealing with this question.

I'm working for US dollars so there is no difference. I thought to hold US flag on the boat if it's possible. As I heard from other russian guys who bought a boat in US - Delawere is not expensive for registration. I'm russian and originally from Russia, our law a bit complicated for small boats and our customs is very greedy, they want about 30% of boat price. If I want to keep boat under russian flag I have to pay taxes for customs, pass state exam for skipper license (not international school like RYA or IYT, these certificates doesn't work as a license in Russia) and get permit certificate for boat from state department of small vessels. I don't want mess with it, really. Better travel outside of home country.

[calmowner]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Be very careful what you buy, your budget is low and the wrong purchase could double it.

I plan to pay for surveyor for extended check after I find the right boat and do all checks that I can do myself. Am I right when I think it should cost about $500?

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by calmowner

I plan to pay for surveyor for extended check after I find the right boat and do all checks that I can do myself. Am I right when I think it should cost about $500?

Yes, I think you are in the ballpark. But remember, hauling the boat out of the water will cost you also to inspect the bottom and rudder etc.
Also, surveyors don't fully inspect the engine, or the rigging. They will likely offer an opinion on those though. I have never used an engine or rigging surveyor, but am pretty good at assessing things myself.
My best advice is to visit the boat twice before making an offer. Spend some time looking around in all spaces. Look for anything unusual. Test that things work. etc etc. Become confident in your future costs before making the offer. Some of the big items $ wise:
-Tanks, any in the bilge under the floor are suspect on an old boat. Expensive to replace and some cant be taken out without destroying the interior.
-Bolt on keel ballast: Rebedding the keel can cost a few thousand $. A boat with an internal ballast wont have this risk.
-Sails are exceedingly expensive now days. Look over the main and working genoa well to assess how long they will last.
-Chainplates: Look for any sign of wetness or rust weeping.
-Rudder: Many are wet inside. Not a game stopper, but could cost you in the future. Have to check this on survey though.
-Engine. This is obvious I guess.
-Refrigeration: does it work? (if you want it) If possible turn it on the night before survey. Some make sound but don't get very cold.
-Mast and rigging. corrosion?
-Cored hulls: This can get expensive. Cored decks: A large percentage of boats have some water intrusion in the deck core. A surveyor should inspect this.
There are many more things... but that's a start.