Fin Keel vs. Full Keel

[Hiracer]

Originally Posted by keelbolts

If you're going racing, perhaps a fin keel boat is the way to go. If you're cruising and safety, simplicity, and comfort are more important than downwind speed, then you want a modified full keel boat with a keel hung rudder and a tiller.

Somehow I'm not sure it's all that simple.

Clawing off a lee shore in a storm comes to mind. There are days when having windward ability can be a big deal.

I don't see how having a fin keel means you can't have simplicity and comfort. There are fin keels, and then there are fin keels. Not all fin keels are indigenous to racing boats.

Isnt' there some boat called Valiant that sort of started this genre, the cruising fin keel?

[Cheechako]

I just ran accross this and thought I should pass it along (not mine-no relationship) 31 foot Ericson Cruising 31 cutter. These are very strong and can take you anywhere you want to go. Cut awaysemi full keel etc, This one appears to have everything you need to just leave ......$17,500!!

[Cheechako]

oops here: ERICSON 31 INDEPENDENCE SAILBOAT $17,500.

[keelbolts]

You're right, Hiracer, it's not that simple. I stand by what I said, and yet I now happily own a boat that has, not one, but two fin keels. My full keel boat is all you could want in a deep water boat. I wouldn't trade her for ten new boats. She's unbeatable upwind, fast enough downwind, famously good in light airs, will heel no further the the toe rail with all plain sail up & 70 knots of wind (I've been there), will sail herself when asked to, is comfortable, and pretty. She's 32'6", 7 tons TM, and, with three reefs in the main, a storm jib, and the toe rail in the water requires no more than a thumb and two fingers on her two foot long tiller. You can see why I'm biased towards full keel boats.

But all of that comes at a price, a six foot draft. So I have my little plastic, fin keel boat to play on the bay. She has few of Favona's attributes, but she's an amazingly roomy 23' that's prefect for bay sailing & coastal hops.

So I demonstrate that, not only are there different boats for different people, there are different boats for the same person - for different applications. I guess it's not simple at all.

[bob perry]

Keelbolts:
I like your attitude. If I have learned anything over the last 49 years of sailing countless different boats it is that they can all be enjoyed. My approach is to appreciate the boat for what it is and don't try to make it something it is not. Be honest about your boat. Sail every boat sympathetically to it's genetic proclivities. What bothers me on sites like this is that they often are reduced to individuals defending their own personal preferences while being close minded to the idea that alternatives can be very successful. As a designer I am not afforded that luxury. I have to be open to all the ideas. I have my own favorite kinds of boats but I have to be ready to respond when a client wants something different. If I had shoved my own idea of the "perfect boat" down the throats of my clients I would have starved years ago.

I'm hungry but I'm not starving.
I think I hear my stomach grumbling now.

[keelbolts]

Mr. Perry, I understand, exactly, the position you're in. I spent several years in architecture. What I wanted often had to take a back seat to what the client wanted. I could, and did, try to steer them in certain directions, but - as you know - he who has the gold makes the rules...

When I bought Favona, I was 20 years younger & I was going to take on the world - or at least the wet parts of it. Favona was designed for sailing in the North Sea & she never failed to take care of me. Now I'm older, slower, &, having done some blue water sailing, have opted for less excitement & more fun. I have no regrets. Sunset drinks at anchor, while less heroic than battling wind & wave, are much more pleasant. My little bulbous, plastic, twin-keeler is perfect for that job. It's my floating winnebago.

[bob perry]

Keelbolts:
I hear you loud and clear.
Where ever you go, you are there.
I bought my current 26'er because I a client owned it and I had sailed it a few times and I liked it. Ater I bought it I "ran the numbers" and was amazed at how bad some of the numbers were. Still, I loved the boat so I thought hell with it. It's all about liking your boat and a great part of liking your boat is understanding what you have.
My boat is a pig in light air. Fine. I have a 9.5 hp Volvo saildrive that is very good in light air. My boat doesn't have an enclosed head. Fine. I sail by myself so that is never an issue.

I think I could live with just about any boat just so long as it had nice, pleasing lines.

At 62, almost 63 , years of age, my own SA/D is not what it once was and my D/L is up a bit and my L/B has increased from a 32 waste size to a 38 waste. But I like to think that there is still some value left and someone could still enjoy me.

[TaoJones]

Originally Posted by bob perry

<snip>

At 62, almost 63 , years of age, my own SA/D is not what it once was and my D/L is up a bit and my L/B has increased from a 32 waist size to a 38 waist. But I like to think that there is still some value left and someone could still enjoy me.

It's good to know your vessel. It's better to know yourself. When a man who knows all the vessels knows himself, Poseidon smiles.

TaoJones

[Cheechako]

"It's good to know your vessel. It's better to know yourself. When a man who knows all the vessels knows himself, Poseidon smiles"

So eloquently put.... as usual!

[PatH]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I just ran accross this and thought I should pass it along (not mine-no relationship) 31 foot Ericson Cruising 31 cutter. These are very strong and can take you anywhere you want to go. Cut awaysemi full keel etc, This one appears to have everything you need to just leave ......$17,500!!

Cheechako, thanks for the link! nice little cutter. I'm looking for my first boat and fell in love with the design of the Ericson (and the price of that one!) But it's been sold!!

[Cheechako]

Yea, Ericson only made the 31 and 36 "Cruising" for a short time. I think they are pretty good boats. I looked very closely at both back "in the day" and really couldnt find much wrong construction wise.

[Cheechako]

Boy that was a a steal. Is there anything much prettier on the water? here's some good info: History - Ericson Independence E31 - www.Ericson31.com and another for sale: 1979 Ericson Independence Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com=

[PatH]

Having sailed fin keeled boats for the past 24+ (out of 25) years of my life with my father, I'm going to keep looking for a full keeled boat! My plan is to be detached and cruising before he is and he's been quasi-planning his entire life. I've never sailed a full keel, but our Irwin 37 ketch/cutter now has a modified full keel with a center-board that has never worked. I *think* I like the stability/strength of the full keel better.

[Hiracer]

To me, strength is the strong point of cutaway full keels. You don't ever read about a full keel falling off. They may not go to windward as well as a fin keel, but there's lots of different ways to define performance and incremental increases in speed is only one.

[bob perry]

How does a full keel equate with "stability"?
Just asking for a cogent explanation.
Waiting,,,,,,