Bestevaer 49ST

[Prairie Chicken]

I may have missed it, but have you sold the old boat yet?

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Prairie Chicken

I may have missed it, but have you sold the old boat yet?

Yes, they did, within the last 2-3 months.

Ann

[SailRedemption]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Hi SailRedemption

On our previous boat we had a snubber that ran the length of the deck and this worked well, so we will try and reproduce this. I think this should be possible, but this needs to be sorted properly after all the deck gear is fitted.

This is what is being planned at the moment:
A 14m length of 16mm nylon octoplait will run along the deck, or more correctly above the deck. Today I tested out an openable Bullseye strop that I made just long enough to fit over the cross piece of our double bollards. Under tension the snubber will run through it and hover above the deck. When the load is released and it flops down, the setup is too short for the low friction ring to hit the deck, something I really wanted to avoid. I won't pre-tension the Bullseye until I have checked it is all good with the snubber in place, so the tails have not been cut off the stopper yet:




This gives a better idea of the size of the Bullesye strop. It can be opened and closed. It is perfect for this application - there is not enough room for a soft shackle to fit in the hole with the snubber, and loops that are whipped at the throat to hold an LF ring and cow hitched on would both be too long and oriented the wrong way. The strength has not been tested, but should be about 170% line strength if made with care:



SWL

Great, yea I just bought a big ring for a docking project I'm working on. I'm excited to see the rest of you ring and snubber setup down the road.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Winches are Andersen (Danish again). We have 2 x 62 and 4 x 58 in the cockpit and 2 x 46 on the mast. Both with stainless steel tops.

Anchor winch is a Maxwell 4000 (New Zealand). We need plenty of grunt . Chain stopper and Devil claw are Muir (Aussie).

Both the yankee and staysail furlers will be Furlex 400 (made by Seldén, where our mast is coming from as well). Normally the staysail would be on a smaller furler, but keeping them identical means the staysail furler should be bullet proof and most of the parts will be interchangeable with the yankee furler. We drooled over the Reckmann units. In the end it was one area that cost cutting won. The price difference was just too high.



Undecided yet, as we are leaving instrument descisions as late as possible.

The Jefa Drives have quite low power consumption. The larger DD3 is even aproved for, and will deliver full power, on small autopilot computers like the AC12 (when operating on 24V).
I think we be tempted by the greater current reserves of the larger computer units such a the B&G AC42 or the newer but almost identical NAC-3.

SWL

That's a beast of an anchor winch. From Maxwell's superboat range.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Hi SailRedemption

On our previous boat we had a snubber that ran the length of the deck and this worked well, so we will try and reproduce this. I think this should be possible, but this needs to be sorted properly after all the deck gear is fitted.

This is what is being planned at the moment:
A 14m length of 16mm nylon octoplait will run along the deck, or more correctly above the deck. Today I tested out an openable Bullseye strop that I made just long enough to fit over the cross piece of our double bollards. Under tension the snubber will run through it and hover above the deck. When the load is released and it flops down, the setup is too short for the low friction ring to hit the deck, something I really wanted to avoid. I won't pre-tension the Bullseye until I have checked it is all good with the snubber in place, so the tails have not been cut off the stopper yet:




This gives a better idea of the size of the Bullesye strop. It can be opened and closed. It is perfect for this application - there is not enough room for a soft shackle to fit in the hole with the snubber, and loops that are whipped at the throat to hold an LF ring and cow hitched on would both be too long and oriented the wrong way. The strength has not been tested, but should be about 170% line strength if made with care:



SWL

Running the snubber from the transom is a concept that Jon Neeves has been advocating for a couple of years now (and as far as I know no-one else has ever made the suggestion). Its a pity he has not posted here for some time - I’m sure he has some more words of wisdom that would be appreciated here. He is published on Practical Sailor and contributes to YBW where he has freely advocated this practice.

How long have you been using the concept and what has been your experience with it so far? Sounds like you have been happy with it.

[packeteer]

what's the point of a long snubber? more stretch?

[Kenomac]

Why not just run the two jumbo dock shock absorbers off the bow like we do? Plenty of stretch, less hassle and we never feel boat (tugging) movement at anchor. Feels like we're floating unattached.

[Seaworthy Lass]

The snubber acts as a shock absorber to reduce snatch loads. Nylon works well, as it stretches far more than polyester, but if it is made strong enough to cope with most loads, then a decent length is needed to provide enough stretch. We usually deployed about 14m and left a loop of chain between boat and snubber to chain connection. That connection was made with a soft shackle and this worked extremely well.

Running the snubber along the deck stopped the snubber tangling with the chain and made it super quick to undo, but it was not without some problems. It took up deck space and created more to trip over and the creaking was a bit annoying at times. As well dirt tended to accumulate under the snubber. The deflection of the nylon to avoid obstructions on deck, such as the cabin top, was the main problem. Running the snubber through low friction rings should help this issue. I just need to keep them off the deck. A Bullseye strop attached to the cross piece of the bollard should work well in this application.

I am also planning to make the portion running over the bow roller in thick dyneema to reduce problems with chafe (this has to extend over the bow, as a slack portion of chain needs to be left to give the snubber room to increases in length). Eye splices will be used at each end of the dyneema. I will try a cow hitch to connect the dyneema to snubber and, as before, a soft shackle to connect to the chain.

A few of other things we may also trial are:
-A bridal bridle arrangement with two snubbers that pass over the bow cleats. The force tends to be on one snubber or the other but this may help reduce sheering. Also, snubbers do break and having two means there is always one in reserve.

-Leading the snubber from the waterline. The new boat has an attachment point at the bow close to the waterline. This adds some complication, but a lower attachment increases the scope for a given amount of rode.

None of these ideas are new. However you organise it, having a reasonably long nylon snubber (exact length can be debated) is vital in rough conditions.

SWL

[Kenomac]

Have you seen the super snubber that I use? It eliminates all the problems you mention with your current method and still allows plenty of stretch. Just takes a minute to set and as far as durability without modifications it's now on it's fifth season. Two years of continuous use. Chafe has also been solved.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Do you mean a rubber snubber?

We have used a few on smaller boats going back a couple of decades and they worked well at lower wind speeds (better than nylon), but did not last long in bad conditions and didn't provide quite enough stretch. Perhaps the new ones are better.

What exactly are you using and how much stretch do they give you?

SWL

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Do you mean a rubber snubber?

We have used a few on smaller boats going back a couple of decades and they worked well at lower wind speeds (better than nylon), but did not last long in bad conditions and didn't provide quite enough stretch. Perhaps the new ones are better.

What exactly are you using and how much stretch do they give you?

SWL

At least a foot or more. Here's a video showing the snubber working. I used an Ultra chain grab, dock line with chafe guards and two large dock snubbers maybe two feet long. It's important not to buy the cheaper Chinese snubbers, because the rubber doesn't stretch as easily. Use the quality English or American snubbers which cost 3 times as much and offer more stretch. There's a big difference in the rubber quality.

You can let the rope do the stretching or have the rubber do the stretching (it's up to you), but there's no way both of those large rubber snubbers are going to let go, and even if they did, I still have the dock line on the bridle as backup until I can add in another length of rope in a pinch; which I do have onboard with a second chain hook, which I've never needed to use.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9lyypubKVrU

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by downunder

That's a beast of an anchor winch. From Maxwell's superboat range.

Indeed. I prefer horizontal windlasses like the Lighthouse and Lofrans, but if I were doing a vertical one, it would be this one

You're getting the warping drum and external brake, right?

I can't remember -- are you installing a thruster, or not? If you don't have a thruster, the warping drum will be especially much needed, and I would want both, actually.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

At least a foot or more. Here's a video showing the snubber working. I used an Ultra chain grab, dock line with chafe guards and two large dock snubbers maybe two feet long. It's important not to buy the cheaper Chinese snubbers, because the rubber doesn't stretch as easily. Use the quality English or American snubbers which cost 3 times as much and offer more stretch. There's a big difference in the rubber quality.

I have great experience with rubber snubbers, and I agree with Ken about the expensive English ones versus the Chinese carp which is sold everywhere.

I always use rubber snubbers when tied up to a dock longer term. I find them really essential to prevent snatching and banging around in bad weather. Sized correctly they last multiple seasons without failure. Especially crucial in Cowes, my boat's new winter home, which is somewhat exposed to Nor'easters.

Nylon rope is ok to provide the stretch for an anchor snubber, but you don't have space for the necessary length for dock lines. And nylon dock lines work in the fairleads and chafe.

Rubber snubbers are great in anchor snubbers, too, to help "tune" the stretch. For this use, you need a really big one to be able to absorb the requisite amount of energy, and you should be using nylon in any case, so that you don't lose all the stretch if the rubber fails.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Indeed. I prefer horizontal windlasses like the Lighthouse and Lofrans, but if I were doing a vertical one, it would be this one

You're getting the warping drum and external brake, right?

I can't remember -- are you installing a thruster, or not? If you don't have a thruster, the warping drum will be especially much needed, and I would want both, actually.

Yes, we are having a bow thruster (Sidepower 8kw @ 24V).

The windlass will have a warping drum, but only a standard cone clutch, not the external band brake. We will have a Muir chainstopper.

SWL

[weavis]

Dockhead...
I put your name down to have one of these built by KM..
The model is the Axonite..

Your welcome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht9KGfOSGrc