Best Pilothouse Sailboat?

[Steadman Uhlich]

To Deblen:

I watched the Haber video you linked. Thanks for adding it here, as I enjoy learning about more pilothouse (PH) boats.

Nice looking smaller PH boat. I like the cutter rig, sprit, and the lines (the size of the PH for the hull). I don't mind the larger PH as shown, as I think some are too small (really just a wheelhouse).

I also like the tabernacle mast (video shows one man raising the mast) and can imagine that would be good in Europe's canals. (Haber is built in Poland).

Watching the video, I did get the impression that the boat seems tender, as it is shown in full sail and sailed in relatively flat water (for part of the video). But, there are many boats that are built and intended for near shore, bay sailing, protected waters, and coastal cruising, so I don't judge it harshly, as many boats are perfect for their local waters or similar places.

Since you posted the link, what do you think of the Haber boats?

Or, the one you own (which looks like another type of PH boat)?

[JJ77]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

I respect the Dutch builders and designs...and traditional "working boat" features in some Dutch boats.

But...
From this photo that looks like it would be a very wet deck boat (or would submarine). Look at the flatness of the water and the low freeboard at the bow. What would it look like if there were 3-5 foot waves? Or 6-9 foot?

Hello Steady hand,

Missed your response,picture is a bit deceiving I think.it is not that low...this one is a Noordkaper43

[deblen]

Hi Steadyhand I am not familiar with Haber Yachts-only what is on Inet.
They do have N.A distributor if you Google.
Pilothouse sailing vessels are much more popular in Europe,probably due to climate.
There appear to be two types of pilothouse "motorsailers"-those that are "motor boats" with sails added & those that are sailboats with a pilothouse added.
My boat was designed as the latter & I like it,especially for my climate.I believe it is the only one of this model in N.A. & is out of production.
A similar design is the LM28,& there are a few of these in N.A.,but also out of production.Both are good sailers,great sea boats, are well eqpd for their size & used ones are fairly common in Europe. cheers/ Len

[oceane]

it was mentionned briefly at the start of this thread...
the Cheoy Lee 43 by BPerry

Perry43Midshipman

doesn't sail as good as a Baba/Panda in upwind condition, but she's huge, built like a tank, actualy tanks are huges! and does sail quite well with her fat sliperry shape. hull speed 9.5 knts
my down side to it, galley down...

[Steadman Uhlich]

To JJ77:

Thanks for posting more photos of the Noordkapper boat. What follows is not intended to be argumentative, and is posted in a truly friendly tone of voice. I simply see the issue of design and wish to explore it in a friendly discussion.

I do think is a handsome looking boat. I like just about everything I see in the photos. I really do like the look of the boat, and prefer that type of pilot house over many other PH designs. It looks robust.

But, I am still seeing the boat photographed in what appear to me to be flat sea conditions. In one, (anchored image) the water is calm. In the sailing photo, it appears the only wave on the water is from the wake of the photographer's boat!

Perhaps it is my years of sailing on San Francisco Bay (typically in 20-30 knots of wind) that have my eyes looking for a boat that will take to waves without a shudder and immersion.

And while the Pacific is called that, it often has large swells and big waves.

Given the proximity of the North Sea, and the robust design of the boat (I like that pilot house design), I would expect to see the boat taking a sail in more challenging conditions (where the build and design should "shine") and would hope that it rides the waves (6+ feet or more) I would expect to find offshore (my intended purpose for a boat like that).

If I worked for that builder or designer or brand CEO, I would be telling him this: "Our boat is designed for sailors who appreciate robust design and the safety features of our build. Let's show our boat taking to sea in conditions where other sailors on other brand boats stay at the dock!"

Of course the marketing department wants to show the boat in the best light and in ideal sailing conditions. All boat manufacturers do.

To my POV, the IDEAL sailing conditions for that type of boat design (to be marketed) are those conditions that are more challenging than calm light breezes and no waves (or just the wake of the photographer's boat).

In other words, I would want a boat that is shown to be much more than one only sailable in the Zuiderzee or protected waters (or calm seas conditions).

[Polux]

Even if a boat with a small draft and a traditional hull I don't think the Noordkaper 43 with all that weight would have a problem sailing almost anywhere but they are very expensive. I would say that it would be a great boat to liveaboard and to sail on the trade winds if one does not mind to go slow...but it will motor in anything less than medium winds and even with those will not be fast. Not a good performance upwind also.

Lots of options if one has the money....they are all expensive This one is a better sailingboat.

[Matt Johnson]

I'm not a big fan of the galley up design (can you tell I don't cook?). You have all those beautiful views and you're stuck down in the hull on the settees watching through small ports.

Matt

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

I'm not a big fan of the galley up design (can you tell I don't cook?). You have all those beautiful views and you're stuck down in the hull on the settees watching through small ports.

Matt

Matt, I agree with you.

I think a galley down is my preference. I would rather use the space in the pilothouse for more settee seating that could be used as a berth too, so, long enough for someone 6feet tall.

Of course, the larger the boat one gets, allows one to have both!

I would like a 40 footer. When the boat gets to about 50 or more, the PH on some has room for several activities or stations.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

I'm not a big fan of the galley up design (can you tell I don't cook?). You have all those beautiful views and you're stuck down in the hull on the settees watching through small ports.

Matt

If you put the salon on top it has to be a smaller one to incorporate a good chart pilot station. I understand the idea and on another type of boat I would agree but this one is a "expedition" boat and they gave to the interior pilot station the best location.

[DDabs]

I don't understand pilothouses that don't have helm stations inside. If not, it's really just a glorified deck salon.

The Landfall 48 is a pretty cool pilothouse, but they are older and have some balsa core issues, so I've heard. Not all of them have the helm inside.


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[Polux]

Originally Posted by DDabs

I don't understand pilothouses that don't have helm stations inside. If not, it's really just a glorified deck salon.
..

This one has a very good one but no wheel, new designed Pilot house yachts don't have them, included the Cornell's one. Most of the time the boat is on autopilot and a joystick is just fine.

Someday the cars will be steered with some kind of Joystick. Do you play Grand Turismo on Playstation? it is easier to drive a car with a some kind of complex joystick than with a wheel and a F1 has basically a kind of Joystick as a wheel. The wheel was created due to a mechanical need that makes sense when the steering is mechanical and direct. On an interior station, doubling an outside one, the steering will not be mechanical and the wheel does not make sense anymore, it is an anachronisms and takes away interior space.

[DDabs]

I guess... I still don't like the idea of relying on electronic "joysticks" when steering in heavy weather or bad conditions. What if something fails? I'd prefer to have a mechanical helm. Also, F1 cars definitely still use a wheel! Just more gadgetry on it.


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[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

I'm not a big fan of the galley up design (can you tell I don't cook?). You have all those beautiful views and you're stuck down in the hull on the settees watching through small ports.

Matt

One thought on this; 95% of the time you are at anchor... so having that nice light open space is pretty cool.

[Matt Johnson]

It's pretty easy to put a u-shaped (square) settee on one side and the other be a chart table with helm seat. Like the illustration you posted Polux...just swap the galley with the forward seating area. Even the set-up on the Garcia Explorer would work with the forward end of the settee being the cart table.

I've also seen a lot of pilothouses with only the nav seat at window/port height, and the rest of the seating at normal sole height to gain the extra width under the deck. That close to the outside action and not being able to see would drive me crazy.

This is the main reason were switching over to a pilothouse from our Sabre. I'm sick of sitting at anchor and wondering what is going on outside. I feel like a gopher constantly popping my head out a hatch all day and night trying to see what that last noise was. I would love a cat for that reason, but budget dictates a different path...pilothouse.

Matt

[Polux]

Originally Posted by DDabs

I guess... I still don't like the idea of relying on electronic "joysticks" when steering in heavy weather or bad conditions. What if something fails? I'd prefer to have a mechanical helm. Also, F1 cars definitely still use a wheel! Just more gadgetry on it.


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Well, a wheel it is not, more kind of a rectangular thing and only moves less than 90º to each side. More of a Joystick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2baGzjcZXxs

Yes I will also prefer a mechanical one too, but you cannot have a mechanical one outside and inside. Makes more sense to have the Mechanical one outside.