Visit our Popular Forums

Hardhead · 10-05-2018, 11:13

At some point in the next 2-10 years, I plan to become a full-time cruiser. (Precisely when depends on life..) Just as a curiosity and a very generic matter, can anyone offer a speculative maintenance and upkeep cost comparison between a 35 and 45 foot fiberglass monohull?

All things being equal - say a 25 year old boat, rigging and necessary systems already replaced, and both boats in good working functional order at the start, with updated electronics. Assume for example, either boat has solid decks, and any rot, etc., has already been addressed and repaired.

I understand larger boats have more hatches, ports, etc., and less off the shelf replacements. I'm generally handy with boat repairs, and don't mind tackling projects, and researching repair skills, so I would always prefer to do the work myself if reasonably possible. I would be very content with a 35 foot boat, and my family had one for years on lake Michigan while I was growing up. However, if the averaged cost differential is, say, less than 5k annually, it would be something to consider.

Has anyone owned both size boats, and have any general thoughts? Most everyone here has more real-world experience than me, so I'd value any comments, even criticizing the question itself-

billknny · 10-05-2018, 11:36

The difference is large...

I maintained a fleet of 50 boats of a wide variety of sizes for a charter company. ANd I have owned boats from 40 to 52 feet. Here is the best "rule of thumb" that was quite good across boats from 25 to 70 feet:

Annual upkeep cost of a boat is 5-10% of its cost AS IF IT WAS NEW. Some years cheaper, some years more expensive.

That is a cost to maintain it in excellent condition, not just keep it floating as a liveaboard crash pad.

You can save some if you do a lot of the work yourself, but the ratio of costs will stay about the same.

Given that a NEW 45 foot boat will be (roughly) 2x the cost of a 38 foot boat, you can expect the maintenance costs to be in the same ratio.

I used to give a seminar on how to pick a boat. My first rule of boat buying happiness was ignored by almost all people, but it is 100% true:

Do NOT buy the biggest boat you can afford. Buy the smallest boat you can tolerate.

Hardhead · 10-05-2018, 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by billknny

I used to give a seminar on how to pick a boat. My first rule of boat buying happiness was ignored by almost all people, but it is 100% true:

Do NOT buy the biggest boat you can afford. Buy the smallest boat you can tolerate.

Thanks Billknny - that's what I was thinking myself. The question is, how much $$ can I tolerate... I appreciate the advice. I take it as gospel, because it seems to be universal among those who really know.

I have a Catalina C22 now, and after 2 years of setting it up the way that I like, I feel like it is the greatest boat in the world.

I'd ultimately like something with a little more blue capability when I can get out from behind a desk. Reading John Kretschmer's books, I really like the thought of something like a Passport 40, if I can put it together when the time comes. The biggest question for me is cost of upkeep.

Bill O · 10-05-2018, 12:24

No disrespect here, but moving up from a very simplistic C22 the systems and upkeep in a 35 or 45' will be much more complicated. We've owned many small boats and they are much easier to maintain.

That said, it's totally doable if you move up in 8-10' increments to get a good handle on the increased systems and also can do the maintenance yourself. The more creature comforts added in the larger boat, the more cost. For example, you probably use a cooler to keep your food cold, but adding a refrigeration system will most likely add more batteries, solar, etc. to keep the food cold. Unfortunately it's the cost of doing business by adding more stuff.

The biggest annual main cost after purchasing/outfitting the boat is to pay for dock/storage/insurance, but that should be simple math to get a ball park figure.

In the end, having a larger boat is nicer as a live aboard and to sail. The increased interior of a larger boat is obvious as far as space. A 45' may have 3-4 times the interior size of the 22. So depending on how much room you need, plan accordingly. The other added benefit from a larger boat is much nicer sailing platform. Typically there is much more room around the rigging to forward and in general the relatively heavier boat will be much more stable underfoot.

My advice would be to try to sail as many other boats as possible to see what you like/dislike and are comfortable handling. There have been families of 5 that have sailed around the world in a 27'.

Bill O.

Hardhead · 10-05-2018, 12:40

Thanks, well understood. I spent my earlier youth on a 35', but no experience larger than that. From what I understand, above that size, the costs and complexity likely rise exponentially.

thinwater · 10-05-2018, 13:02

~ length^3
~ weight
~ new purchase price

---

These all get you about the same place. I've moved up and I've moved down.

However, the fixed % depends a LOT on the person. The marina across the creek from me is 3x the price. I really can do quality work cheaply, and my scrounging skills for cheap parts and materials are legendary. It also took many years to perfect these skills. I'd like to brag I was a fast learner, but then it wouldn't have taken so long!

The long-term trick is to fix things so that they don't break again, and to catch things early.

Kenomac · 10-05-2018, 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by billknny

The difference is large...

I maintained a fleet of 50 boats of a wide variety of sizes for a charter company. ANd I have owned boats from 40 to 52 feet. Here is the best "rule of thumb" that was quite good across boats from 25 to 70 feet:

Annual upkeep cost of a boat is 5-10% of its cost AS IF IT WAS NEW. Some years cheaper, some years more expensive.

That is a cost to maintain it in excellent condition, not just keep it floating as a liveaboard crash pad.

You can save some if you do a lot of the work yourself, but the ratio of costs will stay about the same.

Given that a NEW 45 foot boat will be (roughly) 2x the cost of a 38 foot boat, you can expect the maintenance costs to be in the same ratio.

I used to give a seminar on how to pick a boat. My first rule of boat buying happiness was ignored by almost all people, but it is 100% true:

Do NOT buy the biggest boat you can afford. Buy the smallest boat you can tolerate.

Having owned several boats 12ft up to 63ft, I don’t agree with any of the above analysis. Larger newer boats cost proportionally much less to maintain than smaller older boats. The 10% rule is false unless you purchase a old clunker.... then 10% won’t be nearly enough.

Examples: The pumps onboard our Oyster 62 cost exactly the same as the pumps onboard our Hunter 450. Other systems are sized up when new, but cost nothing on an anual basis following the initial purchase, items like the anchor or winches. The cost to service the diesel engines are the same, solar array... the same, haul out if necessary... about the same. BTW: The most expesive haul out, bottom paint job and diesel service ever was on our Hunter which took place in San Francisco. Never paid anywhere near as much for the same service for either Oyster.

sailorboy1 · 10-05-2018, 13:45

The closest I can come to the question is the difference between a 39' boat and 43.5' boat. The length cost difference between the two was about $75/year. That's the cost difference of the haul out and bottom paint. In truth the 43.5' was less expense to maintain because it was newer and that was less breakage, plus the newer boat are built in a way results in easier access to stuff.

Get the smallest boat that meets your needs and wants, but don't let the "extra maintenance cost" of 5' more stop you from being more comfortable the 99% of time

**JPA Cate** · 10-05-2018, 14:54

If you plan on doing your own work, then you can answer the question for yourself, in a boatyard. Just look at their bottoms, while holding your sanding block up between you and it. That represents sorer back and shoulders, that bigger boat!, and might end up with you paying others to do the sanding. [Don't ask!] There is a thread running now on the costs of bottom jobs. http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...st-200838.html Good luck with your decision.

Ann

Cheechako · 10-05-2018, 15:31

I say general maintenance difference is negligible. Big replacement items like sails engines are much higher on the 45. But pumps, hoses, instruments, fuel, even bottom paint is minimally different.
If you are rebuilding a boat big difference. If you start with one in great shape, little difference.

mvmojo · 11-05-2018, 08:51

I found that when boat size goes above about 38', cost go up significantly. Take a look at the cost of winches, shackles, turning blocks, rigging, sails, etc. Get above 38' and the forces on the rig and it's various components seem to jump exponentially as do the cost of the items designed to handle these loads. Ditto below decks. A fresh water pump for a 36 footer with a single head, shower and galley sink is cheaper than a pump for a 45 footer with two heads, two showers, galley sink, maybe an ice maker, etc. You'll also have more lighting needs in a larger boat, more port lights, more cushions to recover periodically, need larger fenders, the list goes on and on. More bottom paint is just the tip of the bigger boat cost iceberg!

Hardhead · 11-05-2018, 09:04

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I appreciate all the comments.

Pizzazz · 11-05-2018, 10:53

I believe the key variable is whether you have the time and inclination to do the work yourself or have professionals do it for you. Related to this is the standard of maintenance - you can spend a lot of time running your wires neat or buffing fiberglass to perfection but not everyone will appreciate such a high standard for an older boat. If you follow an 80/20 rule you will get most of the benefit for relatively little money and effort. Another variable related to standard is the use of marine vs. rv (for example) parts. You can replace light fixtures at $10/a piece with rv parts or $80/a piece with marine parts. You can buy a $200 truck diesel heater that you install yourself or you can spend $2,000 for a brand name diesel heater plus probably as much for installation. There is a difference in quality but it is up to you if you care about the difference and the impact on resale value down the road.

Typical items that cost the same are electronics, electrical, plumbing, cushions (if you need to replace), engine maintenance. The large cost differences come from bottom paint, sail replacement and hardware, engine replacement if needed.

Keep in mind that if you hire labor to do the work, they typically charge more for larger boats. For example, an oil change and engine tune up could cost $50 if you do it yourself, $250 for a small engine done professionally or $500 for a larger engine done professionally.

SV Pizzazz